Subject: JMP> RE: Ambiguity in XCMI & PWG Job Mon: fullColorImpressionsComplete d(1

From: "Caruso, Angelo" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:37:53 PST

Tom,

There's no ambiguity in my mind. You increment exactly one of the three
counters ([monochrome]impressionsCompleted,
fullColorImpressionsCompleted, or highlightColorImpressionsCompleted)
for each SIDE completed. If the side requires 3 or more colorants to
produce the impression then it's Full Color, black plus one other
colorant would be Highlight color, and a side that uses only black would
cause the monochrome counter to increment. To display job progress to a
user you need to sum all three of these counters. 

For example, if you produce a duplex sheet with full process color
graphics on the front side and black text on the back side, then you
would increment fullColorImpressionsCompleted when the front side was
completed and [monochrome]impressionsCompleted when the back was
complete. Since the descriptions of these attributes were changed to say
"For printing, the impressions completed includes interpreting, marking,
and stacking the output", then this implies to me that both counters
would be incremented simultaneously when this completed duplex sheet was
delivered to the output.

Is there something else I'm missing here?

Obviously these objects do not provide detailed colorant use information
for each page. To do so would require objects to count the actual amount
of each colorant transferred to each side. So as a compromise, we
proposed these two new objects (which complement the previously existing
[monochrome]impressionsCompleted counter) to provide enough information
for an accounting application to bill at different rates for monochrome,
highlight color, and full color impressions within a job.

Thanks,
Angelo

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Tom Hastings [SMTP:[email-masked]]
> Sent:	Friday, December 12, 1997 11:26 AM
> To:	[email-masked]
> Cc:	XCMI Editors only
> Subject:	Ambiguity in XCMI & PWG Job Mon:
> fullColorImpressionsCompleted(1
> 
> URGENT:
> 
> The current definition of fullColorImpressionsCompleted(114) and
> highlightColorImpressionsCompleted(115) is:
> 
> fullColorImpressionsCompleted(114),	Integer32(-2..2147483647)
> INTEGER:  The number of full color impressions completed by the device
> for
> this job so far.  For printing, the impressions completed includes
> interpreting, marking, and stacking the output.  For other types of
> job
> services, the number of impressions completed includes the number of
> impressions processed. Full color impressions are typically defined as
> those requiring 3 or more colorants, but this MAY vary by
> implementation.
> 
> highlightColorImpressionsCompleted(115),
> Integer32(-2..2147483647)
> INTEGER:  The number of highlight color impressions completed by the
> device
> for this job so far.  For printing, the impressions completed includes
> interpreting, marking, and stacking the output.  For other types of
> job
> services, the number of impressions completed includes the number of
> impressions processed.  Highlight color impressions are typically
> defined
> as those requiring black plus one other colorant, but this MAY vary by
> implementation. 
> 
> 
> Suppose you have a 4 color process that makes four passes through the
> marker
> for each side,  does this attribute count by 1 for each pass or does
> it still
> count just the number of sides?
> 
> The advantage of counting the number of color passes is that something
> 
> counts for each pass which can be shown to a user.  Also accounting
> may
> want to charge for each color pass.  Conceivably, there might be a
> variable
> number of passes, depending on the colors demanded by each image?  
> 
> The advantage of only counting once per side, is that you can then
> compare
> the number of impressions for the job with the number of
> fullColorImpressionsCompleted and determine the percentage of color
> impressions in the job.  Also this definition seems to be more in
> keeping
> with the
> concept of "stacking" the media mentioned in the definition.
> 
> Since Xerox proposed this attribute, what did we have in mind?
> 
> Thanks,
> Tom

---

From: Tom Hastings <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 14:36:57 PST

Angelo,

You've come up with a third interpretation of the impressionsCompleted,
fullColorImpressionsCompleted and highlightColorImpressionsCompleted!

I'm proposing the interpretation based on our discussion at the
Dec 5 JMP meeting (which you did not have the benefit of attending).

PEOPLE,
PLEASE RESPOND TO THE DL THIS WEEK, THURSDAY, 12/18/98, IF YOU OBJECT TO 
MY CLARIFICATIONS.
AGREEMENT REPLIES WELCOME, BUT SILENCE WILL BE INTERPRETED AS AGREEMENT.
I'M STILL PLAN TO FORWARD THE JOB MON MIB TO THE IESG THIS WEEK AS WE
AGREED AT THE JMP MEETING.

First, here is the definition of the term "impression" that we
came up with at the meeting (please review the text too, since it was only
the ideas that we agreed to at the meeting):

Impression:  For a print job, an impression is the passage of the entire
side of a sheet by the marker, whether or not any marks are made and
independent of the number of passes that the side makes past the marker.
Thus a four pass color process counts as a single impression.  One-sided
processing involves one impression per sheet.  Two-sided processing
involves two impressions per sheet.  If a two-sided document has an odd
number of pages, the last sheet still counts as two impressions, if that
sheet makes two passes through the marker or the marker marks on both sides
of a sheet in a single pass.  Two-up printing is the placement of two
logical pages on one side of a sheet and so is still a single impression.
See "page" and "sheet".

The three interpretations of these three attributes are:

1. Does impressionsCompleted increment or not when a highlight or full color
impression is made?  The current above definition of impressions suggests
that it does, since an impressions is the passing of one side of the
media past the marker whether color or not.

2. Does the fullColorImpressionsCompleted count once for each side of
a full color impression or once for each color pass past the side of
a medium?

For example, if I had a 16-page document that had 10 black and white pages,
5 highlight color pages, and 1 full 4-color page, (number-up=1, sides=1), 
would the counts at the end of my job be:

                         highlightColor         fullColor
   impressionsCompleted  ImpressionsCompleted   ImpressionsCompleted

1. 16                    5                      1
2. 16                    5                      20
3. 10                    5                      1
4. 10                    5                      20

I suggest that it is interpretation 1 that we are agreeing to and I'll clarify
the fullColorImpressionsCompleted, by adding the phrase, "independent
of the number of colors or color passes" to the end of the first
sentence, yielding:

The number of full color impressions completed by the device for this job
so far independent of the number of colors or color passes.

I'll also add the parenthetical remake to the impressionsCompleted
"(monochome, highlight color, and full color)" to the first sentence,
since it is clear from the definition of impression that it includes
all, yielding:

The total number of impressions (monochome, highlight color, and full
color) completed for this job so far.

Ok?

AGAIN, PLEASSE SEND E-MAIL, IF YOU DISAGREE WITH THESE CLARIFICATION.

Thanks,
Tom  

The current definitions of impressionsCompleted,
highlightColorImpressionsCompleted, and fullColorImpressionsCompleted are:

OBJECT-TYPE
SYNTAX      Integer32(-2..2147483647)
MAX-ACCESS  read-only
STATUS      current
DESCRIPTION
"The total number of impressions completed for this job so far.  For
printing devices, the impressions completed includes interpreting, marking,
and stacking the output.  For other types of job services, the number of
impressions completed includes the number of impressions processed.

NOTE - See the impressionsCompletedCurrentCopy and
pagesCompletedCurrentCopy attributes for attributes that are reset on each
document copy.

NOTE - The jmJobImpressionsCompleted object can be used with the
jmJobImpressionsPerCopyRequested object to provide an indication of the
relative progress of the job, provided that the multiplicative factor is
taken into account for some implementations of multiple copies."
REFERENCE
"See the definition of the term "impression" in Section 2 and the counting
example in Section 3.4 entitled 'Monitoring Job Progress'."
DEFVAL      { 0 }      -- default is no octets
::= { jmJobEntry 8 }

fullColorImpressionsCompleted(114),	Integer32(-2..2147483647)
INTEGER:  The number of full color impressions completed by the device for
this job so far.  For printing, the impressions completed includes
interpreting, marking, and stacking the output.  For other types of job
services, the number of impressions completed includes the number of
impressions processed. Full color impressions are typically defined as
those requiring 3 or more colorants, but this MAY vary by implementation.

highlightColorImpressionsCompleted(115),	Integer32(-2..2147483647)
INTEGER:  The number of highlight color impressions completed by the device
for this job so far.  For printing, the impressions completed includes
interpreting, marking, and stacking the output.  For other types of job
services, the number of impressions completed includes the number of
impressions processed.  Highlight color impressions are typically defined
as those requiring black plus one other colorant, but this MAY vary by
implementation. 

>user you need to sum all three of these counters.

The advantage to saying that impressionsCompleted, counts black/white,
highlight color, and full color, is that an application only need to
look at one attribute if it doesn't care about the distinction of b/w,
highlight and full color.  Also the device might not implement
the other two, so it is easier for an application to just look at the
one attribute if that is all it is interested in.  Ok?
 
>would be incremented simultaneously when this completed duplex sheet was

So with my suggested resolution, the fullColorImpressionsCompleted
would count by 1 and the impressionsCompleted would count by 2 in 
your example.

>highlight color, and full color impressions within a job.

I think that the accounting program can still bill correctly with
impressionsCompleted counting highlight and fullColor as well as monochrome.
It can substract out the monochrome, if it wants to, or build in the
charge for color to be less that the correct charge for coloer by the amount 
charged for monochrome and avoid subtracting.

---

From: Ron Bergman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 17:31:39 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)

Tom,

I agree with your interpretation.

I have not found any other responses so I would guess no one else objects.
If Angelo agrees, then it is closed.  Have you heard from Angelo?

	Ron Bergman
	Dataproducts Corp.