Subject: RE: IPP> ? on IPP direction concerning XML

From: Frank Mason <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:32:29 -0600

Carl-Uno in general I agree with your statement to "Don't believe 
everything you read in the press" but the article has disturbing 
quotes (see below) from sources within IPP subgroup.  If it is the 
case that these are misquotes then sorry for the extra traffic but, if 
these are true issues I have real concerns for the future of IPP.  The 
article goes on to say that MS and HP seem willing to abide by 
whatever IPP standard is adopted.  As you are skeptical of the Press 
I'm just as skeptical of Microsoft "abiding" by an outside bodies 
decisions.

Please help me to understand this....

Frank Mason

Quotes from March issue of THE HARD COPY  OBSERVER:
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"At the January meeting of the IPP in Maui, Hawaii, Microsoft (with 
Hewlett-Packard's support) said it would OPPOSE the current draft 
standard if the group did not stop the process to consider the 
change."

"Any printing standard that does not have the combined blessing of 
these two industry giants would be doomed from the start" IPP Member 
Jay Martin from Underscore

"XML-based Internet Printing Solution could compromise the ability of 
developers to create lightweight implementations of IPP" IPP subgroup 
member David Kellerman from Northlake SW

"Although members are skeptical about the XML proposal, most feel a 
reluctance and futility about opposing Microsoft and Hewlett-Packard"
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-----Original Message-----
From:	Carl-Uno Manros [SMTP:[email-masked]]
Sent:	Friday, April 24, 1998 7:03 PM
To:	Frank Mason; [email-masked]'
Subject:	Re: IPP> ? on IPP direction concerning XML

The short answer is: Don't believe everything you read in the press.

Representatives from Microsoft and HP have declared on this DL that 
they
are implementing what the final decision from the IESG will be.

Unfortunately, the IESG is dragging their feet with a proper feedback 
to
this WG (they have had our final drafts since early February).

So, we do not know the final outcome for sure, but you can rely on
everybody implementing the same standard once it is frozen.

Carl-Uno

At 03:06 PM 4/24/98 PDT, Frank Mason wrote:
>IPP Subgroup,
>I'm trying to understand the article "Microsoft, HP Reverse Course on 
>Internet Printing Protocol" March 98 Hardcopy Observer.  The article 
>states that "A meeting of the IPP subgroup during the week of March 2 
>in Austin, TX should shed more light on these issues".  I have looked 
>at the Minutes of the Austin IPP meeting (March 98) and didn't find
>any mention of a discussion.
>
>I'm new to the IPP group.
>So, would someone point me to the correct place?
>
>Thanks
>	Frank Mason
>
>Frank I. Mason
>[email-masked]
>http://www.extendsys.com
>Extended Systems Inc.
>5777 N. Meeker Ave.
>Boise,  ID    83713
>208.322.7575 (voice)
>
>
>
>
Carl-Uno Manros
Principal Engineer - Advanced Printing Standards - Xerox Corporation
701 S. Aviation Blvd., El Segundo, CA, M/S: ESAE-231
Phone +1-310-333 8273, Fax +1-310-333 5514
Email: [email-masked]

---

From: Jay Martin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:27:28 -0400

Frank,

> Jay Martin from Underscore

For the record, this is *not* the quote as published in the March
issue of the Hardcopy Observer.  The actual text is:

  "Whether IPP (as currently defined) is better or worse
   than XML is a really useless discussion.  Without
   Microsoft's agressive support, any pervasive deployment
   of an Internet-like printing protocol will likely fail
   within the general domain."

I did not include Hewlett-Packard in this statement.  And if
Carl-Uno and others want to write off this statement as mere
"speculation", then fine...they are certainly entitled to their
opinions.

As for me, I was simply stating obvious pragmatic reality.
I wish it were not so, but it is.

Since writing that statement on the IPP DL, Paul Moore
reappeared on the DL to say that he believes Microsoft
will indeed implement whatever the IETF ratifies as a
proposed standard from the IPP WG.

So, technically speaking, Frank, you shouldn't have to worry
about IPP (in whatever form it finally takes) not being
implemented by Microsoft.  It should be noted, however,
that if many more months go by, Microsoft may feel that it
can change its position (as can any other player) and do
something else.  Only time will tell.

	...jay

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