Subject: [106attendees] blue sheet

From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 10:14:58 +0800

dear abby:

if i am sitting in a corner of a random wg meeting on an unknown
subject, getting actual work done, and not paying the slightest
attention, should i sign the blue sheet?

curious in singapore

[ note: this is a snark; no response required ]

---

From: Bob Hinden <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 10:20:43 +0800

Randy,

Yes.   That seems very similar to what many people do in w.g. meetings….

Bob

> On Nov 19, 2019, at 10:14 AM, Randy Bush <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> dear abby:
> 
> --
> 106attendees mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/106attendees

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From: Sanjeev Gupta <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 10:31:43 +0800

Dear Randy,

Good etiquette suggests that you sign in pencil.  A blue pencil would be
best, although it is OK to use other colours, too.

-- 
Sanjeev Gupta
+65 98551208     http://www.linkedin.com/in/ghane

---

From: John C Klensin <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2019 21:47:08 -0500

Bob,

But most of those people are pretending to participate even if
they are paying no attention.  I've even see some of them put
their heads up when a hum starts and join in.   Randy is
suggesting the possibility of being honest about the difference
between his physical presence in the room and participating (or
even observing) and I think not signing would be exactly
appropriate (although a variation on Sanjeev's suggestion
involving a pencil the same color as the paper would also be
appropriate).

   john

--On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 10:20 +0800 Bob Hinden
<[email-masked]> wrote:

>> if i am sitting in a corner of a random wg meeting on an
>> unknown subject, getting actual work done, and not paying the
>> slightest attention, should i sign the blue sheet?
>> 
>> curious in singapore
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>

---

From: Wes Hardaker <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2019 23:52:11 -0800

> involving a pencil the same color as the paper would also be

Blue sheets serve two purposes (to my knowledge):

1) documenting who was in the room and heard the conversation for legal
   purposes (an aspect of Note Well)

2) counting the number of people in the room for accurate room size
   estimations in the future

Unfortunately, these two needs could result in separate thoughts about
whether to sign or not.  I'd personally argue you should sign, because
#2 is important, and technically you probably heard "at least a little
bit" of the conversations making #1 at least partially important.

But I also suspect there are other uses I'm not aware of, and IANAL so
my interpretation of #1 is likely wrong too.

-- 
Wes Hardaker
USC/ISI

---

From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 16:14:14 +0800

By that logic, someone who is in the room but not there in spirit should
sign the blue sheets but in the name of someone who isn't there physically
but is there in spirit.

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From: "Dean Bogdanovic" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 16:23:27 +0800

Besides counting how many butts in chairs are in a WG session for future 
planning purposes, some people (maybe I’m the only one) follow only 
certain drafts in the WG session and rest of time spend working on other 
things (like, answering IETF mailing list emails or doing presentations 
for the WG session)

So, yes, everyone physically present in the room should sign the blue 
sheets, otherwise we can find ourselves without a chair to sit in the 
next WG meeting.

Maybe with less signatures it will allow WG chairs to request smaller 
rooms and be more focused on the actual WG topics

---

From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 17:34:29 +0800

Wes Hardaker <[email-masked]> wrote:
    >> But most of those people are pretending to participate even if they
    >> are paying no attention.  I've even see some of them put their heads
    >> up when a hum starts and join in.  Randy is suggesting the possibility
    >> of being honest about the difference between his physical presence in
    >> the room and participating (or even observing) and I think not signing
    >> would be exactly appropriate (although a variation on Sanjeev's
    >> suggestion involving a pencil the same color as the paper would also
    >> be appropriate).

    > purposes (an aspect of Note Well)

+1

    > estimations in the future

This is a side effect of getting the count.
(1) is the main purpose.
Randy should sign.

-- 
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