Subject: [3gv6] Comments on draft-garneij-ipv6-deployment-terminology-01.txt

From: Hui Deng <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 01:37:44 +0800

Hello Fredrik

Thanks for writing this document, I feel this document would help a
lot about discussion.
I have several comments below:

2.1.  IPv6 Deployment
I am wondering there two types of IPv6 deployment, one is user plane,
the other is bear layer or transport network, maybe we could define
two types of them
which have different purpose of deployment.

2.2.  IPv6-only Node
There are some slight difference with Behave recent discussion,
normally if node can only
get IPv6 address assignment, then it means IPv6 only Node.
here you also don't mean IPv6 only stack but from transfer point of view.

2.5.  IPv6 Migration
I don't know whether the final goal is IPv6 only or dual stack?
does IPv6 only is final, then dual stack just transtion stage?
that means operator have to throw away all his today IPv4 routers?

2.7.  IPv6 Transition
could we define the stage for it, such as 20 years and 50 years

Regarding this tale, it is attracting, here I try to explain it in a
different way based on the
one true story happened in China.
"1 Country, 2 Rules"
China is one country which include mainland and Hongkong at least,
right now, mainland is socialist part and Hongkong is capitalist part,
that means two rules have to be used for different place. Let's think about
use 2 rule in all place, such as use socialist and capitalist in both mainland
and Hongkong, it won't work realistically.

this true story is similar to IPv4 or IPv6, if we really want to use
two different IP family
in the same place, that might has some issue?

thanks for the discussion

Best regards,

-Hui

---

From: Cameron Byrne <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:20:46 -0800

> that means operator have to throw away all his today IPv4 routers?

IMHO, IPv6 is goal and dual-stack is a transition step that an
organization may choose.  There are multiple transition mechanisms DS,
tunneling, translation are the major ones.  But there is only 1 goal
of IPv6 as the primary long term internet numbering.  Most folks that
have done the transition would say it takes 1 to 2 years (Google is a
good example), and they did not have throw out any gear.  I did not
have to throw away any gear to enable the beta service on my network,
i also did not have to buy any new gear... which is great when the
project has 0 budget.  There are several networks that have gone dual
stack of IPv6-only ... CERN-NET, NTT, Global Crossing, Hurricane
Electric, Time Warner Telecom, and many others in process.  Many of
them have shared the lessons-learned publicly on the Internet.

> could we define the stage for it, such as 20 years and 50 years

Content is so highly concentrated by a few large companies (Baidu,
Yahoo, Google, Akamai, Facebook ...), i think the majority of traffic
can transition from IPv4 to IPv6 in a rather short time (optimistic,
but possible).  But, the long-tail may live on for 10 years.  But,
these are all just a guess about the long tail.  The fact about a few
access networks and few content networks enabling and IPv6 becoming
widely used is very tangible.  And, the recent facts about Youtube
have made this more concrete

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/020110-youtube-ipv6.html

My only point, lets not define a timeline.

> _______________________________________________
> 3gv6 mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/3gv6
>

---

From: "Fredrik Garneij" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 00:11:26 +0100

Hello Hui,

Thanks for your comments.
Inline: 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On 
> Behalf Of Hui Deng
> Sent: den 27 februari 2010 09:38
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: [3gv6] Comments on 
> draft-garneij-ipv6-deployment-terminology-01.txt
> 
> Hello Fredrik
> 
> Thanks for writing this document, I feel this document would 
> help a lot about discussion.
> I am wondering there two types of IPv6 deployment, one is 
> user plane, the other is bear layer or transport network, 
> maybe we could define two types of them which have different 
> purpose of deployment.

That is the case for specific IPv6 Deployment in 3GPP networks as in
other similar network but I think it is best to keep the definitions
generic. I do agree that there are many types of IPv6 deployment.

> 
> 2.2.  IPv6-only Node
> There are some slight difference with Behave recent 
> discussion, normally if node can only get IPv6 address 
> assignment, then it means IPv6 only Node.

I'll keep that in mind.

> that means operator have to throw away all his today IPv4 routers?
 
I would think IPv6-only. But as it is written in 2.1 IPv6 Deployment
"IPv6 Deployment in co-existence with an IPv4 environment may or may not
have the goal of completing an IPv6 migration."

In an IPv6 Migration process dual-stack is a good IPv6 transition
mechanism and if and how long it is used is up to what your excel
timeline tells you.

When and if you decommission any equipment or deploy new should be part
of a IPv6 migration strategy.

> could we define the stage for it, such as 20 years and 50 years
Point in time may vary. You can force it or you can plan for it and
watch for what you think is signs of that it is time. It is a business
decision to make and it can be done unilaterally or bilaterally. 

> 
> Regarding this tale, it is attracting, here I try to explain 
> it in a different way based on the one true story happened in China.
> "1 Country, 2 Rules"
> China is one country which include mainland and Hongkong at 
> least, right now, mainland is socialist part and Hongkong is 
> capitalist part, that means two rules have to be used for 
> different place. Let's think about use 2 rule in all place, 
> such as use socialist and capitalist in both mainland and 
> Hongkong, it won't work realistically.
> 
> this true story is similar to IPv4 or IPv6, if we really want 
> to use two different IP family in the same place, that might 
> has some issue?
> 

Thanks for sharing your story. I see your point.

///fredrik :-)