Subject: [68ATTENDEES] Extremely Smoky Meeting Room

From: Randall Gellens <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 01:36:16 -0700

Perhaps I am the only one bothered, but I'm in Congress 1 now 
(apparea) and it is very smoky here.  I'm not sure if there is a 
smoking area adjacent to the room, or the air intake for the room, 
but it makes it very hard to focus on the meeting, at least in my 
case, due to difficulty breathing, headaches, etc.

I'm not sure if anything can be done, but at a minimum, I request 
that indoor smoking be taken into consideration when deciding meeting 
venues.
-- 
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
-------------- Randomly-selected tag: ---------------
mokita (moe-KEE-tah; New Guinean; noun): truth everybody knows but
nobody speaks.

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From: John C Klensin <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 04:50:50 -0400

--On Monday, March 19, 2007 01:36 -0700 Randall Gellens 
<[email-masked]> wrote:

> (apparea) and it is very smoky here.  I'm not sure if there is
> a smoking area adjacent to the room, or the air intake for the
> room, but it makes it very hard to focus on the meeting, at
> least in my case, due to difficulty breathing, headaches, etc.
>
> I'm not sure if anything can be done, but at a minimum, I
> request that indoor smoking be taken into consideration when
> deciding meeting venues.

+1

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From: Xiaodong Lee <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:54:25 +0800

+1

-- 
-- Xiaodong LEE [The best answer is doing]
   +86-10-58813020 
   mailto:[email-masked]
   http://www.lixiaodong.cn

---

From: "Steve Buko" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 01:54:59 -0700

I second that comment.  It was very smoky last night as well.

|-----Original Message-----
|From: Randall Gellens [mailto:[email-masked]]
|Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 9:36 AM
|To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
|Subject: [68ATTENDEES] Extremely Smoky Meeting Room
|
|Perhaps I am the only one bothered, but I'm in Congress 1 now
|(apparea) and it is very smoky here.  I'm not sure if there is a
|smoking area adjacent to the room, or the air intake for the room,
|but it makes it very hard to focus on the meeting, at least in my
|case, due to difficulty breathing, headaches, etc.
|
|I'm not sure if anything can be done, but at a minimum, I request
|that indoor smoking be taken into consideration when deciding meeting
|venues.
|--
|Randall Gellens
|Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
|-------------- Randomly-selected tag: ---------------
|mokita (moe-KEE-tah; New Guinean; noun): truth everybody knows but
|nobody speaks.
|
|_______________________________________________
|68ATTENDEES mailing list
[email-masked]
|https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/68attendees

---

From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:56:39 +0100

>>>>> "Randall" == Randall Gellens <[email-masked]> writes:
    Randall> Perhaps I am the only one bothered, but I'm in Congress 1
    Randall> now (apparea) and it is very smoky here.  I'm not sure if
    Randall> there is a smoking area adjacent to the room, or the air
    Randall> intake for the room, but it makes it very hard to focus on
    Randall> the meeting, at least in my case, due to difficulty
    Randall> breathing, headaches, etc.

    Randall> I'm not sure if anything can be done, but at a minimum, I
    Randall> request that indoor smoking be taken into consideration
    Randall> when deciding meeting venues.  

  A man down the hall was complaining to the hotel manager that his
non-smoking room smelled of smoke, right near the door.
  Of course, that's smoke coming in from the hall (but neither of them
seemed to clue into that).  The hallways/etc. are connected without
vents, etc. to the atrium, where there is definitely smoking permitted.
  I come from a no-smoking-in-public-places city, and it's easy to
forget how pervasive the smell can be.

  I would also ask if the IETF can persuade the hotel to move the
smoking areas out of the atrium....

- -- 
]            Bear: "Me, I'm just the shape of a bear."          |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson,    Xelerance Corporation, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] [email-masked]      http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/mcr/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [

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From: Janet P Gunn <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 05:13:56 -0400

Congress 2 is not too bad in that respect.

But the ladies rest-room... reminds me of High School!

Janet

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From: Randall Gellens <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 02:13:28 -0700

>  smoking areas out of the atrium....

Yes, please!

It would make a *huge* different to the success of the IETF, in my 
humble opinion.
-- 
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
-------------- Randomly-selected tag: ---------------
Every word is like an unnecessary stain on silence and nothingness.
                                                         --Beckett

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From: Ray Pelletier <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 05:40:12 -0400

> It would make a *huge* different to the success of the IETF, in my 

 From the Secretariat:
I have already talked with the hotel and they are checking it out.  We 
have requested to make the hotel as non-smoking as possible, moving the 
smoking area outside.

Ray

---

From: "David T. Perkins" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 04:42:35 -0700 (PDT)

HI,

Another source seems to be smoking in the stalls in the restrooms.

Any possibility of putting no smoking signs there.

Regards,
/david t. perkins

---

From: Randall Gellens <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 05:41:37 -0700

Caution: the hotel's Czech House restaurant bills itself as 
non-smoking, but there is a smoking area just in front of its doors. 
I had a lunch meeting there, and because there was a group of smokers 
just in front of the doors, it was painful inside.
-- 
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
-------------- Randomly-selected tag: ---------------
Attaccabottonai (ah-TAHKA-bo-TONE-eye; Italian; noun): a doleful bore
who buttonholes people and tells sad, pointless tales.

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From: Yangwoo Ko <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 22:34:06 +0900

+1

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From: "McCandless, Kevin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 08:49:35 -0500

Since the offenders are fellow IETF members why not ask them to respect
their colleagues and take the smoking outside?  Regardless of venue,
this should be a smoke free environment.

Kevin

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From: Joel Jaeggli <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 07:11:44 -0700

> this should be a smoke free environment.

You guys are aware that cultural norms vary from country to country?

Somehow we've managed to meet in Japan Korea and France despite that.

This hotel does seem to be making an genuine effort. While I don't
particularly appreciate the presence of smokers, I'm not sure what you
expect the meeting planners to do about it given the other constraints
people seem to be so willing to express.

The only country I'm aware of with a 100% ban on smoking is the kingdom
of Nepal.

joelja

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From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:14:55 -0400

>>> request that indoor smoking be taken into consideration when

-1

---

From: Avri Doria <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:36:38 +0100

-1

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From: Stig Venaas <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:41:22 +0100

-1

---

From: Randall Gellens <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:51:26 -0700

>  The only country I'm aware of with a 100% ban on smoking is the kingdom

I'm not aware of anyone asking for a 100% smoke-free country.  We're 
only asking for a smoke free meeting environment.

To quote a famous judge, "Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose."
-- 
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
-------------- Randomly-selected tag: ---------------
The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure pure
reasoning, and inhibit clarity.  With a little practice, writing
can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!            --Calvin

---

From: "Clint Chaplin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:08:01 -0700

And, that judge's jurisdiction doesn't cover this hotel, much less this country.

-- 
Clint (JOATMON) Chaplin
Principal Engineer
Corporate Standardization (US)
SISA

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From: "M.T. Carrasco Benitez" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:39:35 +0100

The ban in nearly all closed public spaces is increasing. Examples:

-  Ireland, since 2004: few people could imagine an Irish pub with smoke
-  Spain, since 2006

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans

T.

On 19 Mar 2007, at 17:51, Randall Gellens wrote:

> I'm not aware of anyone asking for a 100% smoke-free country.   
> We're only asking for a smoke free meeting environment.
>

---

From: Tim Chown <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:46:54 +0000

> -  Ireland, since 2004: few people could imagine an Irish pub with smoke

Scotland already
Wales real soon
England July 1st

Italy also has it, though there you walk down a street and the pavements
are very smoky :P

tim

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From: "M.T. Carrasco Benitez" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:12:48 +0100

> The only country I'm aware of with a 100% ban on smoking is the  

I believe it is Bhutan: smoking and *sale*.

T.

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From: Eric Burger <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:22:51 +0100

England:
http://blogs.usatoday.com/hotelhotsheet/2007/03/did_you_know_sb.html

> I believe it is Bhutan: smoking and *sale*.

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From: Randall Gellens <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:18:41 -0700

>  And, that judge's jurisdiction doesn't cover this hotel, much less 

True, but is his point invalid here?
-- 
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
-------------- Randomly-selected tag: ---------------
Performance is easier to add than clarity.

---

From: Nathaniel Borenstein <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:41:20 +0100

I believe that China was "tobacco-free" (by law, at least) back in  
the 17th century or thereabouts, and that tobacco addicts came to  
form a criminal underclass, much like today's heroin addicts.  It's  
amazing how little we have learned about human nature, addiction, and  
the way genetics and chemistry interact to influence mental health.

I'm all for non-smoking facilities, but not for treating smokers  
punitively.  Providing a reasonably worm and well-ventilated room for  
smokers (no matter what they smoke) isn't going to hurt anyone else.   
-- Nathaniel