Subject: [6tisch] Minutes webex 31 January 2014

From: Thomas Watteyne <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2014 12:48:14 -0800

All,

You will find the minutes of the last webex below.

FYI, all the minutes and slides are archived a
https://bitbucket.org/6tisch/meetings/.

Thanks to Xavi, Pascal and Dominique for taking notes!

As usual, please fix anything we might have missed directly in the e-mail
and reply.

Thomas

----

Minutes Webex 31 January 2014, 6TiSCH WG

Note: timestamps in PST.
Taking notes *(using Etherpad)*

   1. Xavi Vilajosana
   2. Dominique Barthel
   3. Pascal Thubert
   4. Thomas Watteyne

Present *(alphabetically)*

   1. Dominique Barthel
   2. Giuseppe Piro
   3. Guillaume Gaillard
   4. Kuor Hsin Chang
   5. Nicola Accettura
   6. Pascal Thubert
   7. Pat Kinney
   8. Pouria Zand
   9. Qin Wang
   10. Rene Struik
   11. Rouhollah Nabati
   12. Shitanshu Shah
   13. Thomas Watteyne
   14. Xavi Vilajosana
   15. Yoshihiro Ohba

Recording

   - Webex recording (audio+slides,streaming)
   -
   https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/lsr.php?RCID=f7da8c41cf384e25af8725aa82e4a894
    *[63min]*

Slides

   - slides_140131_webex.ppt<https://bitbucket.org/6tisch/meetings/src/master/140131_webex/slides_140131_webex.ppt>:
   slides shared during the call

Action Items

   - *Pat* to put together an overview of IEEE standardization process and
   send to 6TiSCH ML, including how 6TiSCH WG members can participate in IEEE
   6T IG.
   - *Qin* to publish -00 of interface draft.

Agenda

   - Administrivia *[4min]*
      - Approval agenda
      - Approval minutes last call
      - IETF89 preliminary agenda
      - update security discussion
   - IEEE "802.15.IG6T" IETF Liaison 6TiSCH Interest Group (IG 6T) *[20min]*
      - update *[Pat Kinney]*
      - discussion
   - draft-wang-6tisch-6top-interface-00 *[Qin Wang]* *[20min]*
   - use cases and ToS bits *[Pascal Thubert]* *[time permitting]*
   - AOB *[1min]*

Minutes

   - *[08.05]* Meeting starts [*Pascal*]
      - Recording starts.
      - A new note well text was proposed 6 weeks ago, which we used in our
      slides.
      - Lots of discussion on the IETF ML about this new proposed note
      well; people don't agree with the text.
      - The IETF decided to revert to previous version for now.
      - Slides reflect this change.
      - *Pascal* presents agenda.
   - *[08.06]* Administrivia
      - Approval agenda

      No issues raised. Agenda approved.

      - Approval minutes last call

      No issues raised. Minutes approved.

      - IETF89 preliminary agenda
         - Not yet published at time of call.
         - Will be published at http://www.ietf.org/meeting/89/ today by
         midnight UTC.
         - Until Monday midnight to ask for re-schedule if applies.
         - 14 February is the cut-off for all drafts (including -00).
      - Update security discussion
         - Security team had a webex on 1/27.
         - Recording and attendance at
         https://bitbucket.org/6tisch/meetings/wiki/140127_webex_security
         - Goal is to define security architecture.
         - First step would be to publish a draft which gives an overview
         of security in the context of LLNs, similar to
draft-ietf-6tisch-tsch, but
         for security.
         - *[Thomas]* Very early stages, discussion about different
         solutions used by related protocols. Discussion about the notions of
         synchronization.
         - Next meeting on Monday 3 February 8-9am PST
      - IEEE "802.15.IG6T" IETF Liaison 6TiSCH Interest Group (IG 6T)
      - update *[Pat Kinney]*
         - Pat is chair of 802.15.4 WG, and chair of the revision group.
         - IEEE, 2 groups talk about 6TiSCH.
         - 6TiSCH interest group formed in november.
         - meetings covered:
            - overview from Pascal
            - overview of 15.4 MAC changes
            - around 20 participants
         - review objectives of 6tisch.
         - review goals and action items. To support and enhance 15.4e.
         - March Beijing, meeting.
         - Discussing aspects to work with 6TiSCH.
         - Review the behavior is necessary to implement TSCH.
         - Protocol implementation statement: describes at some degree
         (what behaviors are necessary) to implement TSCH.
         - *[Thomas]* Statement about behaviours. What do you mean? This is
         part of 15.4e, right?
         - *[Pat]* 4e is a collection of MAC changes, not TSCH only, there
         is DSME, low latency networks.
         - A lot of people do not understand that they do not have to
         implement everything.
         - This is the mission of the working document/discussion.
         - 2 next calls scheduld 2/6 and 2/27, to discuss aspects on how to
         work together with 6TiSCH.
      - discussion
         - *[Thomas]* Do you have any idea of the timeline when 4e will
         become the new revision of 15.4?
         - *[Pat]* IEEE requires new revision after 3 amendments, or 3
         years.
         - The rollout includes 7 amendements.
      - *[Pat]*move head and get proposals/suggestions, how IEEE group can
      work with 6TiSCH together to find beneficial outcomes and collaborations.
      - *[Pascal]* We have the opportunity to share our work with IEEE.
      - Allocated IEs, changing the revision to be able to allocate high
      level IEs (sub-IDs).
      - Possibly allocate a high level IE ID to e.g. IETF. Then, IETF needs
      to use sub-IDs.
      - Revision will be done this year, if we can agree on IE IDs, we
      could put in right into revision. We should work quickly on IEs.
      - This can be added to the revision if we work quickly.
      - *[Thomas]* We are not chartered yet to work for dynamic scheduling.
      In few month we will be chartered for that. We could own the format and
      contents of the IE and how we cut in sub-IEs, for now.
   - *[Rene]* timeline?
   - *[Pat]* We want to have this effort done by end of year. First WG
   letter ballot by July. Sponsor ballot in November.

   Action item: **[Pat] to put together an overview of IEEE standardization
   process and send to 6TiSCH ML, including how 6TiSCH WG members can
   participate in IEEE 6T IG.

   - *[Pascal]* That would be great. Could you share how people from IETF
   6TiSCH participates in IEEE 6T IG?
   - *[Pat]* Yes, will do. 6T WG and IETF 6TiSCH meets at 6top sublayer.
   - *[Pascal]* Would simplify to work together between IETF and IEEE.
   - *[08.42]* draft-wang-6tisch-6top-interface-00 *[Qin Wang]*
      - *[Qin]* We had a large document for 6top. We cut it in two parts:
      interface and sublayer.
      - Sublayer draft will talk about 6top to 6top communication, and has
      more relationship for IEEE802.15.4.
      - Interface draft is on repository.
      - Section 3 comes from original 6top document.
      - In the interface draft, we added the data model in YANG.
      - As discussed, MIB data model of 6top includes 3 parts:
         - MIB
         - parts of the 802.15.4 PIB
         - parts of the IEEE802.15.4e PIB.
      - In the current document, work on 6top MIB. First time writing a
      YANG model.
      - Some highlights of what is new in the interface document:
         - Added definitin on chunk.
         - Modified the cell model. Before, bitmap of link type for
         hard/soft cell. Yet, link type is attribute to IEEE802.15.4e.
We now use a
         separate 6top-specific attribute to a cell.
         - Changed some command parameters.
         - Removed security related commands (because work on IEEE802.15.4
         PIB, so we can use that PIB directly).
         - Management of chunks, with add/delete capabilities.
      - Objective is publish -00 or -01 before the cutoff date for IETF89
      London.
      - We want to get feedback first.
      - *[Pascal]* can you present in London?
      - *[Qin]* Applied for visa, waiting for reply. Hopefully in London.
      - *[Pascal]* Suggests to find someone from YANG world to review the
      model
      - *[Thomas]* YANG model will be very useful for the CoAP draft as
      well.
      - *[Thomas]* Discussion about division between sublayer/interface
      drafts. There is a lot of introductory text that IMHO should be moved to
      the sublayer draft. The interface draft should mainly contain the YANG
      model.
      - *[Thomas]* Importance of publishing -00 to request comments.
      - *[Thomas]* Commands are internal to the mote, not something that
      translates into a protocol.
      - *[Pouria]* Question about URIs in CoAP draft. How do we use YANG
      model?
      - *[Thomas]* YANG model will be translated in URIs, which might
      require some changes toCoAP draft.
      - *[Thomas]* See draft presented two weeks ago that automatically
      translates YANG model into CoAP URIs.
      - *[Qin]* We should get feedback from CORE or YANG group on -00
      before making further changes.
      - *[Pascal]* please publish as -00, no big deal, will attract
      potential contributors.
   - *[08.??]* use cases and ToS bits *[Pascal Thubert]*

   Pushed to next call by lack of time.

   - *[09.08]* AOB *[1min]*

   No other business raised.

   - *[09.10]* Meeting ends

---

From: Rene Struik <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 15:04:47 -0500

Hi Pat:

It would help the 6tisch community to understand somewhat more the 
timeline for the 802.15.4-2011 revision effort. While the below info in 
the minutes is not necessarily incorrect, this reflects letter ballot 
and sponsor ballot timelines, but does not address when proposals are 
expected. Isn't the timeline for that the March 17-21, 2014 meeting, if 
I remember the outcome of the Jan 2014 IEEE 802 meeting correctly? Also, 
if you could cross-reference some IEEE 802 documents on the server for 
the benefit of 6tisch fans that would be great.

Rene

[excerpt minutes 6TiSCH conf call, Fri January 31, 2014]

  * *[Rene]* timeline?
  * *[Pat]* We want to have this effort done by end of year. First WG
    letter ballot by July. Sponsor ballot in November.

        Action item: **[Pat] to put together an overview of IEEE
        standardization process and send to 6TiSCH ML, including how
        6TiSCH WG members can participate in IEEE 6T IG.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	[6tisch] Minutes webex 31 January 2014
Date: 	Sat, 1 Feb 2014 12:48:14 -0800
From: 	Thomas Watteyne <[email-masked]>
To: 	[email-masked] <[email-masked]>

All,

As usual, please fix anything we might have missed directly in the 
e-mail and reply.

Thomas

----

Note: timestamps in PST.

    Taking notes /(using Etherpad)/

 1. Xavi Vilajosana
 2. Dominique Barthel
 3. Pascal Thubert
 4. Thomas Watteyne

    Present /(alphabetically)/

 1. Dominique Barthel
 2. Giuseppe Piro
 3. Guillaume Gaillard
 4. Kuor Hsin Chang
 5. Nicola Accettura
 6. Pascal Thubert
 7. Pat Kinney
 8. Pouria Zand
 9. Qin Wang
10. Rene Struik
11. Rouhollah Nabati
12. Shitanshu Shah
13. Thomas Watteyne
14. Xavi Vilajosana
15. Yoshihiro Ohba

    Recording

  * Webex recording (audio+slides,streaming)
  * https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/lsr.php?RCID=f7da8c41cf384e25af8725aa82e4a894
    /[63min]/

    Slides

  * slides_140131_webex.ppt
    <https://bitbucket.org/6tisch/meetings/src/master/140131_webex/slides_140131_webex.ppt>:
    slides shared during the call

    Action Items

  * *Pat* to put together an overview of IEEE standardization process
    and send to 6TiSCH ML, including how 6TiSCH WG members can
    participate in IEEE 6T IG.
  * *Qin* to publish -00 of interface draft.

    Agenda

  * Administrivia /[4min]/
      o Approval agenda
      o Approval minutes last call
      o IETF89 preliminary agenda
      o update security discussion
  * IEEE "802.15.IG6T" IETF Liaison 6TiSCH Interest Group (IG 6T) /[20min]/
      o update *[Pat Kinney]*
      o discussion
  * draft-wang-6tisch-6top-interface-00 *[Qin Wang]* /[20min]/
  * use cases and ToS bits *[Pascal Thubert]* /[time permitting]/
  * AOB /[1min]/

    Minutes

  * /[08.05]/ Meeting starts [*Pascal*]
      o Recording starts.
      o A new note well text was proposed 6 weeks ago, which we used in
        our slides.
      o Lots of discussion on the IETF ML about this new proposed note
        well; people don't agree with the text.
      o The IETF decided to revert to previous version for now.
      o Slides reflect this change.
      o *Pascal* presents agenda.
  * /[08.06]/ Administrivia
      o Approval agenda

      o Approval minutes last call

      o IETF89 preliminary agenda
          + Not yet published at time of call.
          + Will be published at http://www.ietf.org/meeting/89/ today
            by midnight UTC.
          + Until Monday midnight to ask for re-schedule if applies.
          + 14 February is the cut-off for all drafts (including -00).
      o Update security discussion
          + Security team had a webex on 1/27.
          + Recording and attendance at
            https://bitbucket.org/6tisch/meetings/wiki/140127_webex_security
          + Goal is to define security architecture.
          + First step would be to publish a draft which gives an
            overview of security in the context of LLNs, similar to
            draft-ietf-6tisch-tsch, but for security.
          + *[Thomas]* Very early stages, discussion about different
            solutions used by related protocols. Discussion about the
            notions of synchronization.
          + Next meeting on Monday 3 February 8-9am PST
  * IEEE "802.15.IG6T" IETF Liaison 6TiSCH Interest Group (IG 6T)
      o update *[Pat Kinney]*
          + Pat is chair of 802.15.4 WG, and chair of the revision group.
          + IEEE, 2 groups talk about 6TiSCH.
          + 6TiSCH interest group formed in november.
          + meetings covered:
              # overview from Pascal
              # overview of 15.4 MAC changes
              # around 20 participants
          + review objectives of 6tisch.
          + review goals and action items. To support and enhance 15.4e.
          + March Beijing, meeting.
          + Discussing aspects to work with 6TiSCH.
          + Review the behavior is necessary to implement TSCH.
          + Protocol implementation statement: describes at some degree
            (what behaviors are necessary) to implement TSCH.
          + *[Thomas]* Statement about behaviours. What do you mean?
            This is part of 15.4e, right?
          + *[Pat]* 4e is a collection of MAC changes, not TSCH only,
            there is DSME, low latency networks.
          + A lot of people do not understand that they do not have to
            implement everything.
          + This is the mission of the working document/discussion.
          + 2 next calls scheduld 2/6 and 2/27, to discuss aspects on
            how to work together with 6TiSCH.
      o discussion
          + *[Thomas]* Do you have any idea of the timeline when 4e will
            become the new revision of 15.4?
          + *[Pat]* IEEE requires new revision after 3 amendments, or 3
            years.
          + The rollout includes 7 amendements.
      o *[Pat]*move head and get proposals/suggestions, how IEEE group
        can work with 6TiSCH together to find beneficial outcomes and
        collaborations.
      o *[Pascal]* We have the opportunity to share our work with IEEE.
      o Allocated IEs, changing the revision to be able to allocate high
        level IEs (sub-IDs).
      o Possibly allocate a high level IE ID to e.g. IETF. Then, IETF
        needs to use sub-IDs.
      o Revision will be done this year, if we can agree on IE IDs, we
        could put in right into revision. We should work quickly on IEs.
      o This can be added to the revision if we work quickly.
      o *[Thomas]* We are not chartered yet to work for dynamic
        scheduling. In few month we will be chartered for that. We could
        own the format and contents of the IE and how we cut in sub-IEs,
        for now.
  * *[Rene]* timeline?
  * *[Pat]* We want to have this effort done by end of year. First WG
    letter ballot by July. Sponsor ballot in November.

        Action item: **[Pat] to put together an overview of IEEE
        standardization process and send to 6TiSCH ML, including how
        6TiSCH WG members can participate in IEEE 6T IG.

  * *[Pascal]* That would be great. Could you share how people from IETF
    6TiSCH participates in IEEE 6T IG?
  * *[Pat]* Yes, will do. 6T WG and IETF 6TiSCH meets at 6top sublayer.
  * *[Pascal]* Would simplify to work together between IETF and IEEE.
  * /[08.42]/ draft-wang-6tisch-6top-interface-00 *[Qin Wang]*
      o *[Qin]* We had a large document for 6top. We cut it in two
        parts: interface and sublayer.
      o Sublayer draft will talk about 6top to 6top communication, and
        has more relationship for IEEE802.15.4.
      o Interface draft is on repository.
      o Section 3 comes from original 6top document.
      o In the interface draft, we added the data model in YANG.
      o As discussed, MIB data model of 6top includes 3 parts:
          + MIB
          + parts of the 802.15.4 PIB
          + parts of the IEEE802.15.4e PIB.
      o In the current document, work on 6top MIB. First time writing a
        YANG model.
      o Some highlights of what is new in the interface document:
          + Added definitin on chunk.
          + Modified the cell model. Before, bitmap of link type for
            hard/soft cell. Yet, link type is attribute to
            IEEE802.15.4e. We now use a separate 6top-specific attribute
            to a cell.
          + Changed some command parameters.
          + Removed security related commands (because work on
            IEEE802.15.4 PIB, so we can use that PIB directly).
          + Management of chunks, with add/delete capabilities.
      o Objective is publish -00 or -01 before the cutoff date for
        IETF89 London.
      o We want to get feedback first.
      o *[Pascal]* can you present in London?
      o *[Qin]* Applied for visa, waiting for reply. Hopefully in London.
      o *[Pascal]* Suggests to find someone from YANG world to review
        the model
      o *[Thomas]* YANG model will be very useful for the CoAP draft as
        well.
      o *[Thomas]* Discussion about division between sublayer/interface
        drafts. There is a lot of introductory text that IMHO should be
        moved to the sublayer draft. The interface draft should mainly
        contain the YANG model.
      o *[Thomas]* Importance of publishing -00 to request comments.
      o *[Thomas]* Commands are internal to the mote, not something that
        translates into a protocol.
      o *[Pouria]* Question about URIs in CoAP draft. How do we use YANG
        model?
      o *[Thomas]* YANG model will be translated in URIs, which might
        require some changes toCoAP draft.
      o *[Thomas]* See draft presented two weeks ago that automatically
        translates YANG model into CoAP URIs.
      o *[Qin]* We should get feedback from CORE or YANG group on -00
        before making further changes.
      o *[Pascal]* please publish as -00, no big deal, will attract
        potential contributors.
  * /[08.??]/ use cases and ToS bits *[Pascal Thubert]*

  * /[09.08]/ AOB /[1min]/

  * /[09.10]/ Meeting ends