Subject: [75attendees] currency?

From: Karen Seo <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:11:46 -0400

If I bring a credit card (presumably fine for hotel and restaurants), 
do I also need to bring cash?  If I need to bring cash, what currency 
(euros? kronor?) should I bring and where/how do you recommend that I 
obtain it?  Thank you.

---

From: Patrik Fältström <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:12:42 +0200

On 16 jul 2009, at 19.11, Karen Seo wrote:

> If I bring a credit card (presumably fine for hotel and  
> restaurants), do I also need to bring cash?  If I need to bring  
> cash, what currency (euros? kronor?) should I bring and where/how do  
> you recommend that I obtain it?  Thank you.

Swedish Kronor is the currency of Sweden.

You can use your credit card at ATMs if it is connected to one of the  
major chains.

You can also exchange money at Forex that (at least in the other  
direction) have no fee, and you can change back what you have not used  
without any penalty. Forex exists "all over the place" and you must  
pass at least three when arriving with airplane and take the train/bus  
to Stockholm.

    Patrik

---

From: "GOLDMAN, STUART O (STUART)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:02:40 -0500

Folks,

At the end of a stay, if I have excess foreign money (paper and coins) I often have the hotel apply it to my bill and then charge the remainder to my credit card.

Stuart Goldman
Alcatel-Lucent 
Member of the Alcatel-Lucent Technical Academy
[email-masked]
+1 602 493 8438
+1 480 414 1260 mobile
 please save a tree by not printing this e-mail.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Patrik Fältström
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 10:13 AM
To: Karen Seo
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [75attendees] currency?

    Patrik

---

From: Basil Dolmatov <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 23:27:34 +0400

GOLDMAN, STUART O (STUART) пишет:

Folks,

I do the same all the time. There were no exceptions throughout the
world, all hotels agreed to do that.

;)

dol@

Stuart Goldman
Alcatel-Lucent

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Patrik Fältström
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 10:13 AM
To: Karen Seo
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [75attendees] currency?

Patrik

_______________________________________________
75attendees mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/75attendees

---

From: Marc Linsner <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:40:01 -0400

Also works at the Duty Free at the Airport when you buy the ‘cheap’ liquor
to take home.  ;^)

-Marc-

On 7/16/09 3:27 PM, "Basil Dolmatov" <[email-masked]> wrote:

>> At the end of a stay, if I have excess foreign money (paper and coins) I
>> often have the hotel apply it to my bill and then charge the remainder to my
>> credit card.
>>   
> 
> I do the same all the time. There were no exceptions throughout the world, all
> hotels agreed to do that.
> 
> ;)
> 
> dol@
> 
>>  
>> 
>> Stuart Goldman
>> Alcatel-Lucent

---

From: Ralph Droms <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:50:51 -0400

Marc - I'm assuming you're speculating; you don't have personal  
experience with cheap liquor, right?

That would be the cheap liquor that gets confiscated at the security  
checkpoint when you change planes?

- Ralph

On Jul 16, 2009, at 3:40 PM 7/16/09, Marc Linsner wrote:

> Also works at the Duty Free at the Airport when you buy the  
> ‘cheap’ liquor to take home.  ;^)
>
> -Marc-
>
>
>>> At the end of a stay, if I have excess foreign money (paper and  
>>> coins) I often have the hotel apply it to my bill and then charge  
>>> the remainder to my credit card.
>>>
>>

---

From: Hendrik Scholz <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:50:59 +0200

On Jul 16, 2009, at 9:40 PM, Marc Linsner wrote:

> Also works at the Duty Free at the Airport when you buy the ‘cheap’  
> liquor to take home.  ;^)

Note that the alcohol monopoly is still in place in Sweden (even  
though they are considered
part of the vodka belt).
As a result you cannot buy duty-free alcohol at ARN if you are flying  
inside/connecting within
the European Union. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systembolaget has  
some entertaining
information about the laws.

Hendrik

-- 
Hendrik Scholz <[email-masked]>

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:15:07 +0200

Hi,

Does anyone know if there's an open (typically jazz,
I guess) jam session happening in Stockholm somewhere
during the IETF week?

This should be a session that non-professionals could
actively participate in. Having moved to Oslo recently,
and witnessed what happens here in the Herr Nilsen jazz
club every Sunday evening, I have become a bit scared
of Scandinavian jazz musicians...

If we find something, would someone like to join me?
I know that there are a lot of musicians among you folks  :-)
(I'm a drummer btw)

Cheers,
Michael

---

From: Fredrik Wellner <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:18:19 +0200

http://www.stampen.se/index.htm

-- 
MVH

/fredrik

---

From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:36:20 -0400

> though they are considered

I think that that is viewed as a feature, not a bug.

> information about the laws.

Do they still have the crowds of Swedes going Malmo <-> Copenhagen to  
get drunk on the cheap ?

Regards
Marshall

> Hendrik

Marshall Eubanks
CTO / Iformata Communications
[email-masked]

---

From: Fredrik Wellner <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 23:00:47 +0200

> Do they still have the crowds of Swedes going Malmo <-> Copenhagen to get
> drunk on the cheap ?

Nowadays we rent/loan a pickup and go to Germay and fill it up with beer.

Cheers!

Fredrik

---

From: Olafur Gudmundsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:11:28 -0400

At 15:50 16/07/2009, Ralph Droms wrote:
>Marc - I'm assuming you're speculating; you don't have 
>personal  experience with cheap liquor, right? That would be the 
>cheap liquor that gets confiscated at the security  checkpoint when 
>you change planes? - Ralph

No Ralph that is cheap liquor that you drink on the plane home to get ready
to face the immigrations/Customs service at home.

         Olafur

---

From: Marc Linsner <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:22:16 -0400

Ralph,

Your right....I saw it TV....

:^)

-Marc-

---

From: Ed Jankiewicz <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:04:35 -0400

not obvious at first, but the "Program" schedule indicates Jazz Jam on 
Wed 29 July, no indication of time or arrangements.

I recently took up string bass - although I'm not very jazz literate, I 
know a few tunes.  There would have to be an instrument available at the 
club.  Mine does not fit in the overhead compartment of an airplane.  I 
guess I could give it my seat, as I might fit in the overhead compartment...

Looks like a place to check out on a free night...

Ed J.

-- 
Ed Jankiewicz - SRI International
Fort Monmouth Branch Office - IPv6 Research 
Supporting DISA Standards Engineering Branch
732-389-1003 or  [email-masked]

---

From: Bob Hinden <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:12:55 -0700

Fredrik,

>> Nowadays we rent/loan a pickup and go to Germay and fill it up with  

It must be hard to drive it across the Baltic :-)

Bob

p.s. Yes, I know there is a bridge to Denmark and then a ferry  
Puttgarden, but still....

---

From: "Thomson, Martin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:19:24 -0500

Actually, the process as I've seen it very much relies on that ferry.  You see, it passes through international waters briefly, so presumably the high VATs from the region don't apply.

I get the impression that the duty free shop on the ferry sells a lot of beer.  The sign on the wall has prices for up to 40 cases of beer, above several very large (and rapidly emptying) pallets stacked with beer.  

Carry-on limitations don't apply on a ferry - you just load up the truck with as much beer as you can afford/carry.

--Martin

> From: [email-masked] [mailto:75attendees-
> [email-masked]] On Behalf Of Bob Hinden
> Sent: Friday, 17 July 2009 10:13 AM
> To: Fredrik Wellner
> Cc: Hendrik Scholz; [email-masked]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This message is for the designated recipient only and may
contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information.  
If you have received it in error, please notify the sender
immediately and delete the original.  Any unauthorized use of
this email is prohibited.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[mf2]

---

From: Bob Hinden <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:17:17 -0700

So it the trip to Germany that allows you to get the beer, not being
in Germany itself :-)

Bob

---

From: Ole Jacobsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:30:22 -0700 (PDT)

Welcome to Scandinavia.

Because of tax, duty and price differences we've been driving, 
sailing, and flying back and forth between Norway-Germany, 
Norway-Sweden, Sweden/Norway-Denmark and Scandinavia-Germany
for as long as anyone can remember. Nobody in Norway is really
interested in visiting Sweden, Denmark or Germany, but we love
to get drunk on the ferry and bring back cheap booze ;-)

[This is sadly almost true].

Ole

---

From: Eric Brunner-Williams <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:39:48 -0400

so, um, if we all bring two bottles of hooch, and if there was a "buyer" 
(or collector), we could meet the ietf's non-beer, non-coffee, non-tea, 
non-... fluid intake requirements, neh?

---

From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:58:40 -0400

> non-... fluid intake requirements, neh?

Do you see arbitrage opportunities here ?

Regards

Marshall Eubanks

---

From: Eric Brunner-Williams <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:07:41 -0400

how many arbitrage opportunities do you see me holding up?

---

From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:24:01 -0400

> how many arbitrage opportunities do you see me holding up?

Before or after I consume the two bottles ?

Regards
Marshall

Marshall Eubanks

---

From: "Soininen, Jonne (NSN - FI/Espoo)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:26:50 +0300

Ole,

I don't think there is anything sad about this. This is our cultural
heritage. Be proud of it! I'm pretty sure the behavior is pretty unique in
the world...

Cheers,

Jonne. 

-- 
Jonne Soininen
Nokia Siemens Networks

Tel: +358 40 527 46 34
E-mail: [email-masked]

---

From: Michael Welzl <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:47:13 +0200

Hei,

Speaking of unusual behavior related to drinking - I
wonder, is it all across Scandinavia that there is
a pseudo-law about drinking in public? I read that
there is this law in Norway before I got here, and
was disappointed about this rule. After one day of
walking around in Oslo, I figured that this law
doesn't really exist, I must have read some nonsense...

Meanwhile I learned that it's really a pseudo law:
it's officially forbidden, but it's all right anyway,
and the only point of the law is probably to make
people "behave" (probably including cleaning up
their stuff as they leave, because everyone seems
to do this surprisingly well here).

Here's a newspaper article about this from yesterday:
http://oslopuls.aftenposten.no/restaurant_uteliv/article233583.ece
or maybe:
http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=y&u=http%3A%2F%
2Foslopuls.aftenposten.no%2Frestaurant_uteliv%
2Farticle233583.ece&sl=no&tl=en&history_state0=

Cheers,
Michael

On Fri, 2009-07-17 at 09:26 +0300, Soininen, Jonne (NSN - FI/Espoo)

---

From: Stefan Winter <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:51:28 +0200

Hi,

> doesn't really exist, I must have read some nonsense...

Speaking of it... a pub in Örebro, Sweden had a sign saying "If you want
us to bring the beer outside across the sidewalk, you have to explicitly
instruct us to cross the sidewalk. It's the law."

Do such laws really exist, and are they really practiced?

Stefan Winter

-- 
Stefan WINTER
Ingenieur de Recherche
Fondation RESTENA - Réseau Téléinformatique de l'Education Nationale et de la Recherche
6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi
L-1359 Luxembourg

Tel: +352 424409 1
Fax: +352 422473

---

From: Mikael Abrahamsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:54:18 +0200 (CEST)

On Fri, 17 Jul 2009, Michael Welzl wrote:

> Speaking of unusual behavior related to drinking - I wonder, is it all 
> across Scandinavia that there is a pseudo-law about drinking in public? 
> I read that there is this law in Norway before I got here, and was 
> disappointed about this rule. After one day of walking around in Oslo, I 
> figured that this law doesn't really exist, I must have read some 
> nonsense...

In Sweden drinking in public (street/park) is regulated in "local 
regulation" (don't know the proper english law term). It's the 
municipality that says where and when you can drink, it's not generally 
enforced either. Generally it's allowed, but there are a few parks in the 
city where it's not.

-- 
Mikael Abrahamsson    email: [email-masked]

---

From: Mikael Abrahamsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:00:19 +0200 (CEST)

> Do such laws really exist, and are they really practiced?

Bars are not allowed to sell alcohol without opening the bottle before 
they deliver it to you. You're not really allowed to bring the 
bottle/glass outside of the establishment either, if they are to serve 
alcohol outside the establishment (like an outside serving area) they need 
a permit for that as well.

So since there is a indoor public area smoking ban in Sweden you can't 
bring your drink with you when you go outside of the bar to smoke. 
(generally, if/when you're smoking outside, go someplace where smoke 
doesn't get to people who are non-smokers, it's considered quite impolite)

---

From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:11:33 +0200

On 16 jul 2009, at 19:11, Karen Seo wrote:

> you recommend that I obtain it?

Haven't been to Sweden before, so maybe things are unusual there.

In general, in Europe credit cards aren't as universally accepted as  
in the US. For instance, last month I was in Germany and they didn't  
accept foreign credit cards at a place I ate. So it's useful to carry  
enough cash to pay for a taxi or a meal, but you could easily end up  
not needing it.

I usually don't bother exchaning what's left but save it for other  
trips, and I take (for instance) my left over UK money to Canada as  
some backup cash in case my cards stop working.

For us Europeans it's generally a good deal to get money from foreign  
ATMs with our ATM cards because within the EU the charges for that are  
regulated and thus low (often free) and the exchange rate is good. But  
it seems some US banks now have much worse charges and exchange rates  
for that, rivaling credit card cash advances. You may want to check  
with your bank.

---

From: David Partain <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:28:54 +0200

On Friday 17 July 2009 13.11.33 Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
> in the US.

Hi,

I think you'll find exactly the opposite in Sweden.  I hardly ever carry any 
cash in Sweden (and I live there...) because I can use my card everywhere.  
That said, it doesn't hurt to have some cash (if you want to buy a hot dog 
from a street vendor or something...), but I don't think you'll need very 
much.

Cheers,

David

---

From: "Mohammad Mahloujian" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:43:12 +0200

Hi,

A word of cautious then, those people who are having the green credit Card
(American Express) may experience some few places that American Express
credit card is not accepted (no no it is not discrimination, it is about how
much they charged and other business conditions). So why not having other
Credit Card like MasterCard, Visa JUST in CASE

Regards
Mohammad Mahloujian

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] För
David Partain
Skickat: den 17 juli 2009 13:29
Till: [email-masked]
Ämne: Re: [75attendees] currency?

Hi,

Cheers,

David

---

From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:45:38 -0400

> heritage. Be proud of it! I'm pretty sure the behavior is pretty  

Not really. When I was at MIT we used to go to New Hampshire (~100 km  
North) to
purchase alcohol for parties, as the New Hampshire taxes were and are  
significantly less.
There are large stores conveniently located just North of the border.
Those drives are part of MY cultural heritage.

People also used to do this in Maine, driving South to New Hampshire,  
until Maine
established a "special economic zone" right at the border, allowing  
alcohol prices in the Maine
stores just North of the border to magically match those in New  
Hampshire just South of the border,
thus keeping at least some of the revenue in the state.

While American State borders seem pretty inconsequential, in many  
states it is against the law to cross state lines to avoid alcohol  
taxes. I was told by my Maine relatives that a driving factor for  
these special stores was the
nasty publicity that issued after an out-of-state tourist was arrested  
by police tasked with tracking people crossing the bridge into New  
Hampshire, purchasing alcohol, and then driving right back.

Regards
Marshall

Marshall Eubanks

---

From: Karen Seo <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:08:44 -0400

Thank you to everyone for the advice!

---

From: Janet P Gunn <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:31:18 -0400

But if you are using a US credit card, the  US bank charges a "foreign 
transaction fee" on each charge.  So it makes more sense to withdraw cash 
from an ATM, and just incur one such fee.
.

---

From: Andrew Sullivan <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 10:01:46 -0400

> heritage. Be proud of it! I'm pretty sure the behavior is pretty unique in

Not really.  For most of my life, Canada had much higher taxes on
alcohol, tobacco, and gasoline (and actually, higher taxes generally)
than the U.S.  Anyone who lived within reasonable distance of the
U.S. border would try to arrange things so that they could buy such
stuff in the U.S. -- this even when the US dollar was worth $0.25 more
than the Canadian one.  There was a major problem with cigarette
smuggling a few years ago (taxes on a packet of cigarettes made them,
IIRC, > C$7.00 in Ontario when they were in the area of US$2.50 in NY
state).

This is why when going into the U.S., one generally faced an
immigration officer, but when entering Canada at a land crossing one
almost always dealt with a customs officer.  The Government of Canada
really didn't care if you wanted to get into our big empty country,
but they sure as heck wanted to be sure you paid your taxes!

(Much of this has changed lately, as alas our Mexican and Czech
friends have learned only this week.)

A

-- 
Andrew Sullivan
[email-masked]
Shinkuro, Inc.

---

From: Dong Zhang <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:18:41 +0800

If I use cash, which kind of money is convenient, SEK, USD or EUR?

Thanks.
B.R.
------------------				 
Dong Zhang
2009-07-20

---

From: Mikael Abrahamsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:28:12 +0200 (CEST)

> If I use cash, which kind of money is convenient, SEK, USD or EUR?

I'd say get SEK for the small spending, pay with Visa or Mastercard works 
at almost all shops etc, AMEX works at a lot of shops.

If you use EUR or USD, you can probably use it but you'll get a very bad 
exchange rate towards SEK compared to if you get SEK at an ATM or exchange 
office.

---

From: "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:13:48 +0200

That is because formally Amex is not a credit card. Because in general they charge more to the vendor than credit cards, vendors choose not to accept them.

regards

Keith 

> From: [email-masked] 
> [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Mohammad Mahloujian
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:43 PM
> To: 'David Partain'; [email-masked]
> A word of cautious then, those people who are having the 
> green credit Card (American Express) may experience some few 
> places that American Express credit card is not accepted (no 
> no it is not discrimination, it is about how much they 
> charged and other business conditions). So why not having 
> other Credit Card like MasterCard, Visa JUST in CASE
> 
> Regards
> Mohammad Mahloujian
>  
> 
> Från: [email-masked] 
> [mailto:[email-masked]] För David Partain
> That said, it doesn't hurt to have some cash (if you want to 
> buy a hot dog from a street vendor or something...), but I 
> don't think you'll need very much.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> David

---

From: "Hall, Barrie J" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:13:29 +1000

> you recommend that I obtain it?

I was in Sweden on holidays in 2006. Stockholm is great.

I had no problems with credit cards anywhere in Sweden (some places just don't take them though). My solution has always been to have an AMEX, a VISA card and a Cirrus ATM card to get cash.

Funniest thing about Sweden is the liquor laws. We arrived by ferry from Finland (Helsinki)...The Mariella.  The ferry is basically a big floating duty-free bottle shop. We watched in amazement as people left the ferry in Stockholm with up to 10 cases of pre-mix vodka drinks...10 cases of beer, etc. We found out why when we ordered up a bottle of wine for dinner the first night, 8 x what we would pay in Australia, ouch...

Cheers,
Barrie

---

From: Patrik Fältström <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 05:03:11 +0200

On 21 jul 2009, at 04.13, Hall, Barrie J wrote:

> We found out why when we ordered up a bottle of wine for dinner the  
> first night, 8 x what we would pay in Australia, ouch...

Many people, including myself, compare the prices in restaurant with  
the prices when buying in a store at home. If you look at the prices  
of wine in the monopoly (Systembolaget) where you buy wine and beer,  
you will see that some wine from for example California is cheaper to  
buy in store in Sweden than in a store in California. Which I think is  
weird as the transportation is not short. Same for wine from many  
other countries.

The taxes on alcohol is such that the percentage of tax is higher the  
higher the alcohol content, so if you are above say 20%, then it start  
to get noticable that the prices are higher. Although I was on  
Brussels Airport the other day, and a bottle of Bombay Sapphire was  
questionably cheaper there than on the Systembolaget.

I.e. the change in currency exchange (SEK is falling) make many things  
cheaper in Sweden.

And for restaurants (as I think that was what the note was about),  
each restaurant do have agreements with some importer of alcohol, and  
of course stuff from that vendor is cheaper. If you ask what the house  
wine is, you will get the best price and just like in other countries  
the wine is often the one that has not bad price performance.

Otherwise, be prepared to pay 150-600SEK for a bottle of wine that is  
1/2-1/3 of that at Systembolaget.

So look for "extra", "speciality" etc.

Same with beer. If you "just" order "a beer please", you get a lager,  
not very fun, but in some places very cheap. If you want a special  
beer of some kind -- that tastes really good -- be prepared paying  
50-75SEK in a bar for a pint.

Note that prices on restaurants in Sweden do include tax, and do  
include tip. Most people only round up to the nearest 10SEK or 20SEK,  
if giving tip at all. You should though give tip if you really liked  
the place. Not giving tip does not make it impossible to come back. It  
is not rude.

This implies a beer from a micro brewery is below US$10, which is  
sometimes not what I have managed at bars in the US (after adding tax  
and tip etc).

Let me recommend beer from the following two breweries, if you find it:

- Närke Kulturbryggeri
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/10902

- Nynäshamns Ångbryggeri
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/3476

    Patrik

---

From: Patrik Fältström <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 05:25:13 +0200

On 21 jul 2009, at 05.03, Patrik Fältström wrote:

> include tip. Most people only round up to the nearest 10SEK or  
> 20SEK, if giving tip at all. You should though give tip if you  
> really liked the place. Not giving tip does not make it impossible  
> to come back. It is not rude.

The reason I point this out is that many people have contacted me  
saying "but hey, Sweden is really expensive", when they for example  
look at menus online. All of the people that have said so are from the  
US. And I can understand that as the prices they normally see is  
without tax and without tipping. Add the ~9% tax and ~15% tip, and you  
have something you should compare with what is on a Swedish menu, or  
in a shop in Sweden...

Lunches for example in Sweden is between 65 and say 105 SEK. That is  
including tax, including tip. And it includes full main dish, sallad,  
coffee, bread and butter. You often have at least 2 dishes to choose  
from.

Try to get that kind of lunch in the US, or many other countries, for  
US$10-US$15.

Look for "Dagens Rätt" (meal of the day).

Available at most restaurants from 11 to 13.

    Patrik

---

From: Mikael Abrahamsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 07:16:10 +0200 (CEST)

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009, Patrik Fältström wrote:

> than in a store in California. Which I think is weird as the transportation 
> is not short. Same for wine from many other countries.

This is explained by the fact that Systembolaget is purchasing in bulk for 
a whole country, so they get good deals due to volume and long purchasing 
agreements. I know Australians who buy Australian wine from Sweden via 
people here due to this fact.

> Note that prices on restaurants in Sweden do include tax, and do include tip.

Please note that ALL prices for EVERYTHING in Sweden is including VAT. It 
is illegal to market things in Sweden to non-companies with prices 
excluding VAT. VAT in Sweden is called "moms" and if a price is without 
moms the it should be clearly marked as such.

---

From: Huub van Helvoort <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:10:53 +0200

Hej Patrik,

You wrote:

> coffee, bread and butter. You often have at least 2 dishes to choose from.
> 

How about the famous Swedish Smörgåsbord, are there any restaurants
in the neighbourhood that serve this?

And, because there is no breakfast served at the conference
centre, are there places outside the hotels that serve a less
expensive breakfast?

Med vänliga hälsning, Huub.

-- 
================================================================
Always remember that you are unique...just like everyone else...

---

From: Patrik Fältström <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:14:38 +0200

On 21 jul 2009, at 10.10, Huub van Helvoort wrote:

> You wrote:
>
>> Lunches for example in Sweden is between 65 and say 105 SEK. That  
>> is including tax, including tip. And it includes full main dish,  
>> sallad, coffee, bread and butter. You often have at least 2 dishes  
>> to choose from.
>> Try to get that kind of lunch in the US, or many other countries,  
>> for US$10-US$15.

I am pretty sure there is. Let me come back.

> centre, are there places outside the hotels that serve a less

Breakfast is included in your hotel charge, so the price is in fact 0  
(zero) SEK. Hard to beat that price.

:-)

    Patrik

---

From: Janet P Gunn <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 07:06:41 -0400

Conversely, many years ago, my father was in the market for a Husqvarna 
chain saw when he went to Sweden.  He thought he would take advantage of 
the situation, and buy it in Sweden.  But he found that the price of the 
same chain saw was considerably HIGHER in Sweden than in the US.

Janet

[email-masked] wrote on 07/21/2009 01:16:10 AM:

> include tip.
> Mikael Abrahamsson    email: [email-masked].
> se_______________________________________________
> 75attendees mailing list
> [email-masked]

---

From: Patrik Fältström <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:38:14 +0200

> in the neighbourhood that serve this?

I think the best Smörgåsbord can be found at Grand Hotel (site of 1995  
IETF in Stockholm btw). It is served on the Veranda, and you can find  
more information here:

http://www.grandhotel.se/in_english/restaurant_bar/grands_veranda/smorgasbord.asp

It does cost 445SEK.

Served Weekdays Noon - 3 pm, 6 pm - 10 pm, weekends 1 - 4 pm and 6 -  
10 pm

You should though see this as a 4-6 course tasting menu. With the  
slight difference that you can select the dishes yourself.

<http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Barnhusgatan+10,+11123+Stockholm,+Sweden&daddr=S%C3%B6dra+Blasieholmshamnen+8,+11148+Stockholm,+Sweden+(Grand+H%C3%B4tel+Stockholm)&hl=en&geocode=%3BFQlLiQMd-c8TASFn_BTz5lfbjA&sll=59.332992,18.067532&sspn=0.017818,0.038538&mra=cc&dirflg=w&ie=UTF8&z=15 

You can also look at Örtagården, that have a buffé both for lunch and  
dinner. Smaller for lunch, but only 95SEK.

http://www.ortagarden.gastrogate.com/

<http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Barnhusgatan+10,+11123+Stockholm,+Sweden&daddr=Nybrogatan+31&hl=en&geocode=&mra=ls&dirflg=w&sll=59.336648,18.06736&sspn=0.017816,0.038538&ie=UTF8&z=15 

Finally, you can get a cab to Ulriksdahls Värdshus:

http://www.ulriksdalswardshus.se/ENGELSK/eindex2.html

This might be the best of the three (although Grand Hotel is always  
Grand Hotel)...

> New! As per May 18th we serve our large smörgåsbord also during  
> weeknights with arrival between 5 pm and 7 pm. Price 385 sek,  
> children 15 sek/year up to 12 years
>
> Lilla smörgåsbordet [The small smörgåsbord]
>
> A luncheon "smörgåsbord" weekdays.
>
> Monday-Friday between 11.30-14.30
>
> Price for lilla smörgåsbordet is 195 sek.
>
> Stora smörgåsbordet [The large smörgåsbord]
>
> Saturdays, Sundays and Bank holidays
>
> arrival between 1 pm and 2 pm or between 5 pm and 6 pm.
>
> Stora smörgåsbord including coffee 385 sek
>
> Children 15 sek/year up to 12 years.

<http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Barnhusgatan+10,+11123+Stockholm,+Sweden&daddr=Ulriksdals+Slottspark,Stockholm,,+17079,+Sweden+(Ulriksdals+W%C3%A4rdshus)&hl=en&geocode=%3BFSARigMdoPYSASGhK1hBf4SoHQ&mra=cc&sll=59.358133,18.031654&sspn=0.071217,0.154152&ie=UTF8&z=13 

    Patrik

---

From: Henrik Nordstrom <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:54:57 +0200

> in the neighbourhood that serve this?

Searching...

Verandan at Grand Hotel do serve a traditional Smörgåsbord

If you visit Skansen then Sollidens Reasturang serves Smörgåsbord at
lunch (12-16). Visit in a group of at least 10 (prebooked) and you'll
get the Skansen entrance for free. Skansen entrance is required as
Solliden is within Skansen. Please note that visiting Skansen is best
done as almost a whole-day event on a rain-free day.

http://www.profilrestauranger.se/skansen/menyer/sollidens-smorgasbord/

Ulriksdals Wärdshus also serves Smörgåsbord if you don't mind traveling
a short distance out of town (27 minutes by public transportation from
central station).

> centre, are there places outside the hotels that serve a less

There is several cafe's and similar around the venue which serves
breakfast, at least in weekdays (weekends may be a little tricker).
Shouldn't be more than the matter of some minutes to find one. Haven't
been there looking for a breakfast myself so no specific
recommendations. 

There is also several who mainly sells breakfast to go in various kinds,
as there is a lot of people traveling via central Stockholm in the
morning. But probably not very close to the venue as it's a little to
the side from main commuting paths.

Best regards
Henrik Nordström

---

From: "Olle E. Johansson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 10:40:54 +0200

> to get drunk on the ferry and bring back cheap booze ;-)

And the Norwegians cross the border to Sweden to go "Harryshopping"
- buying meat and other stuff that's less expensive over here...

/O :-)