Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] First annual IETF community survey

From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 May 2021 12:40:19 -0500

I just participated in the thread about the survey Jay described in this
blog post, and am pleased and embarrassed to learn that the blog post
answered basically all of my questions fully, but I don't pay CLOSE
attention to IETF-Announce, so did not see that the blog had been
published.

This is a silly question, but have people thought about having a mailing
list only for blog announcements?

I don't need to look at IETF-Announce more than once a month; I still look
at the IETF Discussion list every week or two, and it's mostly not a sewer
these days, but I know a lot of people don't subscribe (Mark Nottingham
gloried in unsubscribing), and even being subscribed, it's easy for me to
miss blog posts that are actually pretty important to me (especially about
BOFs, but not only that). I figure it's even easier for other people to
miss them.

Just to level-set, I love the IETF and had never even noticed admin-discuss
- I had to look at the mailman page to figure out if I could reply to it! I
know communication is hard (even when Greg is helping with communication).

Do The Right Thing, of course ...
Best,

Spencer

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:10 PM IETF Executive Director <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> We will shortly be sending out an invitation to participate in our first
> annual IETF community survey to the ~56,000 email addresses subscribed to
> IETF mailing lists.  To find out more about this survey, please see this
> blog post
>
>         https://www.ietf.org/blog/first-annual-ietf-community-survey/
>
> Please feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions
>
> --
> Jay Daley
> IETF Executive Director
> [email-masked]
>
> _______________________________________________
> IETF-Announce mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce
>

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 07:47:42 +1200

Hi Spencer,

> This is a silly question, but have people thought about having a mailing list only for blog announcements?

That almost seems like a contradiction in terms. Isn't a blog something you keep an eye on if interested?
 
> I don't need to look at IETF-Announce more than once a month

Huh? I have a dedicated inbox for ietf-announce that I read whenever it gets new mail. I can't imagine ignoring it for a week, let alone a month. It's right behind the WGs of greatest interest in my priorities.

Regards
   Brian

---

From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 May 2021 15:23:43 -0500

Hi, Brian,

> you keep an eye on if interested?

Perhaps if you'd asked if a blog is "something a smart person would keep an
eye on if interested", the answer could be "yes", but since you asked about
me specifically, the answer is "apparently not".

> Huh? I have a dedicated inbox for ietf-announce that I read whenever it
> gets new mail. I can't imagine ignoring it for a week, let alone a month.
> It's right behind the WGs of greatest interest in my priorities.
>

Excellent. I'm honestly glad someone does.

And I say that, knowing that you and I are chatting in at least two other
email threads that aren't on working group mailing lists. More eyes are
helpful.

I don't need to read Ietf-announce every week.

I'm a former AD and IAB member. But I'm also participating in 3GPP SA2 and
SA4, and apparently now (as of a couple of weeks ago) JTC 1/SC 29, and even
IETF people whose professional responsibility is heavily tilted toward
standards participation may also be participating in other SDOs who make
most of their progress in a blur of email and round-the-clock
teleconferences during week-long meetings, which are pretty distracting for
some of us.

This might have been a silly suggestion (and you well know that it would
not have been my first), but I wondered if Jay having to silently subscribe
50,000 email addresses to a new mailing list in order to reach the IETF
community because so many IETF people are not subscribed to either the IETF
discussion list or ietf-announce, might be a new datapoint to consider.

Like I said. "Do The Right Thing".

I hope we do, whatever that is.

Best,

Spencer

Regards

---

From: "Livingood, Jason" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 14:47:41 +0000

FWIW, typically when a blog post goes live there is also an email to IETF announce + email to admin-discuss, as well as a tweet and LinkedIn post. I’m sure Jay will take any other suggestions under advisement as we continue to improve communications.

Jason

From: admin-discuss <[email-masked]> on behalf of Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Date: Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 4:24 PM
To: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Cc: Greg Wood <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>, Jay Daley <[email-masked]>, Mirja Kuehlewind <[email-masked]>, Lars Eggert <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] First annual IETF community survey

Hi, Brian,

On Sun, May 9, 2021, 14:47 Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
Hi Spencer,

Perhaps if you'd asked if a blog is "something a smart person would keep an eye on if interested", the answer could be "yes", but since you asked about me specifically, the answer is "apparently not".

And I say that, knowing that you and I are chatting in at least two other email threads that aren't on working group mailing lists. More eyes are helpful.

I'm a former AD and IAB member. But I'm also participating in 3GPP SA2 and SA4, and apparently now (as of a couple of weeks ago) JTC 1/SC 29, and even IETF people whose professional responsibility is heavily tilted toward standards participation may also be participating in other SDOs who make most of their progress in a blur of email and round-the-clock teleconferences during week-long meetings, which are pretty distracting for some of us.

This might have been a silly suggestion (and you well know that it would not have been my first), but I wondered if Jay having to silently subscribe 50,000 email addresses to a new mailing list in order to reach the IETF community because so many IETF people are not subscribed to either the IETF discussion list or ietf-announce, might be a new datapoint to consider.

Best,

Spencer

Regards
   Brian

---

From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 16:58:00 -0500

Hi, Jason,

On Mon, May 10, 2021, 09:48 Livingood, Jason <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> FWIW, typically when a blog post goes live there is also an email to IETF
> announce + email to admin-discuss, as well as a tweet and LinkedIn post.
> I’m sure Jay will take any other suggestions under advisement as we
> continue to improve communications.
>
I am now following IETF LLC, IETF, and IETF in LinkedIn. Thank you for the
invitation to join the 20th century.

I also searched for the Internet Architecture Board, but there doesn't seem
to be a LinkedIn account for them. Am I missing it?

I'm still not doing Twitter, as of this moment, but it didn't look like the
LinkedIn followers for the LLC and the IETF would get Jay much closer to
the 50,000 email addresses that (by our definition) make up the IETF
community.

But I'll let the people the community selected to think about this Do The
Right Thing.

Best, as always!

Spencer

>
>
> Jason
>
>
>
> *From: *admin-discuss <[email-masked]> on behalf of
> Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
> *Date: *Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 4:24 PM
> *To: *Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
> *Cc: *Greg Wood <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <
> [email-masked]>, Jay Daley <[email-masked]>, Mirja Kuehlewind <
> [email-masked]>, Lars Eggert <[email-masked]>
> *Subject: *Re: [admin-discuss] First annual IETF community survey
>
>
>
> Hi, Brian,
>
>
>
> Perhaps if you'd asked if a blog is "something a smart person would keep
> an eye on if interested", the answer could be "yes", but since you asked
> about me specifically, the answer is "apparently not".
>
>
>

---

From: Greg Wood <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 19:18:35 -0400

Hi Spencer,

Just FYI (and of possible interest to others), it should be possible to see what the IETF and IAB (and IRTF) are up to on Twitter without creating an account:

https://twitter.com/ietf
https://twitter.com/intarchboard
https://twitter.com/inretafo

The IETF Twitter account has about 13,000 followers, though I expect not all of them are IETF participants (at the moment).

-Greg

> On May 10, 2021, at 5:58 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Hi, Jason,
> 
> On Mon, May 10, 2021, 09:48 Livingood, Jason <[email-masked]> wrote:
> I am now following IETF LLC, IETF, and IETF in LinkedIn. Thank you for the invitation to join the 20th century. 
> 
> I also searched for the Internet Architecture Board, but there doesn't seem to be a LinkedIn account for them. Am I missing it?
> 
> I'm still not doing Twitter, as of this moment, but it didn't look like the LinkedIn followers for the LLC and the IETF would get Jay much closer to the 50,000 email addresses that (by our definition) make up the IETF community.
> 
> But I'll let the people the community selected to think about this Do The Right Thing.
> 
> Best, as always!
> 
> Spencer
>  
> 
> Jason
> 
>  
> 
> On Sun, May 9, 2021, 14:47 Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Hi Spencer,
> 
> admin-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss

--
Greg Wood
IETF LLC
+1-703-625-3917