Subject: RE: [Asrg] Its all over for Challenge Response

From: "Bob Atkinson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:08:44 -0800

> From: [email-masked] On Behalf Of Seth Breidbart

> > This is to me a short sighted perspective. Not only are there
> > significant logistical costs to switching ISPs (economists would say
> > there is significant friction in the transaction) in many many areas
it
> > is the case that just one ISP has a monopoly, and there simply isn't
> > another choice.
> 
> If you have Internet access, there's another choice.  I've been using
> Panix since 1993 or so, but I haven't been dialing directly into it
> for most of that time.  I get raw IP service locally (that has to be
> local, and may have limited options); email and netnews come from
> where _I_ want.

Asking me to choose between a 24.4 kbps dialup (my phone lines are poor
quality) and a 750 Mbps broadband is only offering a false choice. My
ISP owns me, body and soul. And I'm by no means alone in that situation;
there are millions of others.

> > Indeed, that is the situation for me personally: I'm stuck with my
> > cable provider, whether I like them or not, and that's unlikely to
> > change for decades (my property boundary is a telco central office
> > boundary, so DSL will never come).
> 
> How do they prevent you from having an email account elsewhere?

They prevent it because they own the filtering behavior on outbound
email (port 25 or whatever). They can and do deny or allow me to engage
with other mail addresses entirely at their whim. Concretely, I've been
cut off entirely twice in the last two-ish years.

	Bob

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From: Seth Breidbart <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 01:14:48 -0500 (EST)

> there are millions of others.

So get your IP connection via broadband and your email elsewhere.

> email (port 25 or whatever).

So find someone who'll forward your email from another port
(e.g. using the Submit protocol), or get an account you can ssh to, or
find some other solution.  There are plenty of them.  (You can even
arrange to ssh to Port 80, and I doubt they'll ever block _that_ port
outgoing.)

Seth

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From: "Walter Dnes" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 19:31:36 -0500

On Thu, Feb 05, 2004 at 10:08:44AM -0800, Bob Atkinson wrote

> cut off entirely twice in the last two-ish years.

  Haven't you ever heard of smtp-submit (port 587) or ssh-tunneling or a
web interface to email at another ISP ?

-- 
Walter Dnes <[email-masked]>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did

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From: "Alan DeKok" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 07:13:21 -0500

> web interface to email at another ISP ?

  Apparently not.  It's a perrenial excuse used to claim that roaming
users MUST forge messages, as there is NO other method for them to
send email.

  It's nonsense, and I don't understand why it keeps coming up.  The
repetition of this excuse is the reason why I wrote ~2 pages of
rebuttal in the LMAP discussion document.

  Alan DeKok.