Subject: RE: [Asrg] Its all over for Challenge Response

From: "Bob Atkinson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 17:29:47 -0800

> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
Seth
> Breidbart

> "Hallam-Baker, Phillip" <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> > All I think is necessary here is for the ISP to
> >
> >	* Tell the end user what they are doing
> >	* Give the user an opportunity to opt out or select different
> > settings
> 
> That can always be done by selecting a different ISP.  Therefore, any
> problem is self-limiting.

This is to me a short sighted perspective. Not only are there
significant logistical costs to switching ISPs (economists would say
there is significant friction in the transaction) in many many areas it
is the case that just one ISP has a monopoly, and there simply isn't
another choice. Indeed, that is the situation for me personally: I'm
stuck with my cable provider, whether I like them or not, and that's
unlikely to change for decades (my property boundary is a telco central
office boundary, so DSL will never come).

ISPs have considerable power over users. If we're going to intrinsically
give them more power, we ought to have a *very* good reason for it, some
important benefit that cannot reasonably obtained by some other means,
or we best not do it at all.

	Bob

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---

From: Seth Breidbart <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 00:42:34 -0500 (EST)

> another choice.

If you have Internet access, there's another choice.  I've been using
Panix since 1993 or so, but I haven't been dialing directly into it
for most of that time.  I get raw IP service locally (that has to be
local, and may have limited options); email and netnews come from
where _I_ want.

> Indeed, that is the situation for me personally: I'm stuck with my
> cable provider, whether I like them or not, and that's unlikely to
> change for decades (my property boundary is a telco central office
> boundary, so DSL will never come).

How do they prevent you from having an email account elsewhere?

Seth