Subject: [Asrg] [Fwd: Re: The state of the email system]

From: Dave CROCKER <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:44:43 -0600

So let's be clear about my point.  Yes, there is some relationship between trust 
and mistrust, but my point is that the relationship is sufficiently fuzzy so as 
to make it better to think of them as separate.

Most importantly, the paradigms that are invoked for doing analysis and 
filtering when the context is essentially one of mistrust are quite different 
from those used when the context is essentially one of trust.

In the abuse world, mistrust means you start with nothing that you know is true 
about the message and you know that many of those resposible are bad actors, 
seeking to deceive you.  From this flow the kinds of attitude and tools that we 
currently can and should have.

With a trust world, you have information and tools that give a basis for knowing 
bits of truth, such as an identity that is asserted with the message.  This does 
not guarantee that all participants are good actors, of course, but it means 
that you can build from the solid information without using heuristics and 
therefore without the usual false negatives/positives problems.

The best distinction I find myself using is that with mistrust, you must view 
transgressions as sins.  With a trust paradigm, you can treat them as errors.

The handling of a sin is very different from the handling of an error.

d/

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Asrg] The state of the email system
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:40:33 -0500
From: Dotzero <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked], "Anti-Spam Research Group - IRTF" <[email-masked]>
References: 
<[email-masked]>	 
<[email-masked]>	 
<[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>	 
<[email-masked]>	 
<[email-masked]>

On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 8:22 AM, Dave CROCKER <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Do you use that same model in dealing with people?
>
> You have some set of people you know you can trust, so you mistrust everyone
> else?
>

Yay!  A juncture I may jump in at.

Just because I have to deal with people doesn't mean I have to trust
them. As I read this thread I have an image of Tina Turner dancing and
singing "What's Trust got to do with it..."

-- 

   Dave Crocker
   Brandenburg InternetWorking
   bbiw.net
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