Subject: Re: [Asrg] The wonders of telephones and paper mail

From: Franck Martin <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 10:51:59 +1200 (ANAT)

Yes Australia has volume charges. Korea does not, who is leading the pack? 

The students of the University of Fiji, which are connected to AARNET, have to pay for their Internet because it is charged by volume. The whole university is developing a billing department just for the Internet usage. I just say bravo! 

You want more examples in developing countries where the internet per packet is hindering development and education? 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Barry Shein" <[email-masked]> 
To: "Anti-Spam Research Group - IRTF" <[email-masked]> 
Cc: [email-masked] 
Sent: Saturday, 15 November, 2008 10:19:01 AM (GMT+1200) Auto-Detected 
Subject: Re: [Asrg] The wonders of telephones and paper mail 

From: Franck Martin <[email-masked]> 

>It is not impossible to set up an usage based system 

>You could do on the Minitel in France 30 years ago what you just can 
>do now on the Internet. 
> 
>Which one is in use now? 

There's a difference between "is it possible" and "if possible, have 
implementations produced only successful businesses?" 

Besides, Minitel is still around. According to wikipedia it generated 
206M euros (that would be about one gazillion US dollars) in 2005. Not 
that shabby! 

Minitel's initial business model was to make obsolete the need for 
printing and distributing phone books for France Telecom. From what I 
understand it accomplished this. It was only later that it was seen as 
a potential competitor to internet but it mostly stuck with services 
more like what we'd call "pennysaver" in the US (see: Juno.) 

>The Internet is not suitable for usage charging (at the packet 
>level), otherwise it would have been done long time ago. 

This is another straw man, nobody is suggesting charging at the packet 
level. To say it's infeasible to charge per email message isn't that 
different than saying it's infeasible to look at any other email 
message header. 

But no one (not I!) is proposing per message charges, not quite that 
simple-minded. Think something more like postal meters, not stamps. 

But, for argument's sake, hasn't Australia had internet data volume 
charges for years and years? 

Oh well. 

-- 
-Barry Shein 

The World | [email-masked] | http://www.TheWorld.com 
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD | Login: Nationwide 
Software Tool & Die | Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo* 
_______________________________________________ 
Asrg mailing list 
[email-masked] 
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg 
_______________________________________________
Asrg mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg

---

From: Barry Shein <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:48:38 -0500

>Yes Australia has volume charges. Korea does not, who is leading the pack? 

I dunno, I don't care, why should I?

Your assertion was that charging per packet is IMPOSSIBLE!

I said hmm, the entire continent of Australia (I dub thee a continent)
has been doing that for years, how IMPOSSIBLE could it be?

So now what's your argument? Oh right, now you want me to produce
balance sheets, ROI statements, per capita infant mortality per change
in the velocity of literacy rate trends, what???

What happened to "impossible"?

 >The students of the University of Fiji, which are connected to
 >AARNET, have to pay for their Internet because it is charged by
 >volume. The whole university is developing a billing department just
 >for the Internet usage. I just say bravo!

 >You want more examples in developing countries where the internet per
 >packet is hindering development and education?

Well, besides slipping from "impossible" to your possibly interesting
macroeconomic theories of third-world development as a function of
billing expenditures...um, is Australia a developing country? Or is
that why you introduced Korea? Or was it Fiji?

The sand is shifting so fast here I'm having trouble keeping up.

Anyhow, straw man, no one (not I!) ever proposed charging kids in Fiji
(or Korean or Australian) universities anything, unless they also
happen to be running some large commercial email enterprise.

I ain't your capital crime!

-- 
        -Barry Shein

---

From: Franck Martin <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 12:02:25 +1200 (ANAT)

I like your rethoric too 

Especially interpreting what I say... Enough said, can't talk with close-minded people especially from someone from a company called the world. I close this thread here and put you on my do not reply list ;)

---

From: Barry Shein <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:14:56 -0500

> Especially interpreting what I say... Enough said, can't talk with close-minded people especially from someone from a company called the world. I close this thread here and put you on my do not re…

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_(internet_service_provider)

-- 
        -Barry Shein