Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-nottingham-atompub-feed-history-10.txt

From: Mark Nottingham <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:39:14 +1000

The draft currently says;

> In RSS 2.0-formatted feeds, two entries are duplicates if they have  
> the same guid element. The update time of an entry is not defined  
> by RSS 2.0, but the feed-level update time can be determined by the  
> pubDate element.

Should 'pubDate' be changed to 'lastBuildDate'?

On 23/05/2007, at 6:22 PM, Franklin Tse wrote:

>
> In section 4.2 of the draft,
>
>    In Atom-formatted archived feeds, two entries are duplicates if  
> they
>    have the same atom:id element.  The update time of an entry is
>    determined by its atom:updated element, and likewise the update  
> time
>    of a feed document is determined by its feed-level atom:updated
>    element.
>
> In RSS 2, the equivalent of atom:feed/atom:updated is rss/channel/ 
> lastBuildDate. I think it is a good practice to always include it.
>
> By the way, do publishers need to use an atom:id element in RSS 2  
> feeds since there is no equivalent in RSS 2?
>
> Franklin
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Holderness" <[email-masked]>
> To: "atom-syntax" <[email-masked]>
> Sent: Wednesday, 23 May, 2007 15:37
> Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-nottingham-atompub-feed-history-10.txt
>
>>
>> Franklin Tse wrote:
>>> I think lastBuildDate and managingEditor should not be
>>> removed since they are equal to atom:updated and atom:author
>>> respectively.
>>
>> I considered that, but it seems to me the only reason they are in  
>> the Atom
>> examples is because Atom requires those elements - they don't  
>> actually add
>> anything illustrative to the example. However, if you really want  
>> to make
>> the examples identical element-for-element, then the Atom feeds  
>> should all
>> include a subtitle element to match RSS's required channel  
>> description.
>> IMHO.
>>
>> Regards
>> James
>>
>>
>

--
Mark Nottingham     http://www.mnot.net/

---

From: "Franklin Tse" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 18:41:09 +0800

Oops. Yes... should be "lastBuildDate" instead of "pubDate"... Sorry...

Franklin

---

From: Mark Nottingham <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:58:09 +1000

OK, this is what I currently have; comments?

Appendix B.  Use in RSS 2.0

    As previously noted, while this specification's extensions are
    described in terms of the Atom feed format, they are also useful in
    similar formats.  This informative appendix demonstrates how they  
can
    be used in an RSS 2.0-formatted [9] feed.

    In RSS 2.0-formatted feeds, two entries are duplicates if they have
    the same guid element.  The update time of an entry is not  
defined by
    RSS 2.0, but the feed-level update time can be determined by the
    lastBuildDate element, if present.

    RSS 2.0-formatted Complete Feed

    <?xml version="1.0"?>
    <rss version="2.0"
     xmlns:fh="http://purl.org/syndication/history/1.0">
     <channel>
      <title>NetMovies Queue</title>
      <link>http://netmovies.example.org/</link>
      <description>The DVDs you'll receive next.</description>
      <fh:complete/>
      <item>
       <title>Casablanca</title>
       <link>http://netmovies.example.org/movies/Casablanca</link>
       <description>Here's looking at you, kid...
       </description>
       <pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2003 09:39:21 GMT</pubDate>
       <guid isPermaLink="false"
       >urn:uuid:1225c695-cfb8-4ebb-aaaa-80da344efa6a</guid>
      </item>
     </channel>
    </rss>

    RSS 2.0-formatted Paged Feed

    <?xml version="1.0"?>
    <rss version="2.0"
     xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom">
     <channel>
      <title>Liftoff News</title>
      <link>http://liftoff.example.net/</link>
      <description>Liftoff to Space Exploration.</description>
      <atom:link rel="next"
       href="http://liftof.example.net/index.rss?page=2"/>
      <item>
       <title>Star City</title>
       <link>http://liftoff.example.net/2003/06/news-starcity</link>
       <description>How do Americans get ready to work with Russians
       aboard the International Space Station? They take a crash course
       in culture, language and protocol at Russia's Star City.
       </description>
       <pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2003 09:39:21 GMT</pubDate>
       <guid>http://liftoff.example.net/2003/06/news-starcity</guid>
      </item>
     </channel>
    </rss>

    RSS 2.0-formatted Subscription Document

    <?xml version="1.0"?>
    <rss version="2.0" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom">
     <channel>
      <title>Liftoff News</title>
      <link>http://liftoff.example.net/</link>
      <description>Liftoff to Space Exploration.</description>
      <atom:link rel="prev-archive"
       href="http://liftoff.example.net/2003/05/index.rss"/>

      <item>
       <title>Star City</title>
       <link>http://liftoff.example.net/2003/06/news-starcity</link>
       <description>How do Americans get ready to work with Russians
       aboard the International Space Station? They take a crash course
       in culture, language and protocol at Russia's Star City.
       </description>
       <pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2003 09:39:21 GMT</pubDate>
       <guid>http://liftoff.example.net/2003/06/news-starcity</guid>
      </item>
     </channel>
    </rss>

    RSS 2.0-formatted Archive Document

    <?xml version="1.0"?>
    <rss version="2.0" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
     xmlns:fh="http://purl.org/syndication/history/1.0">
     <channel>
      <title>Liftoff News</title>
      <link>http://liftoff.example.net/</link>
      <description>Liftoff to Space Exploration.</description>
      <lastBuildDate>Fri, 30 May 2003 11:06:42 GMT</lastBuildDate>
      <fh:archive/>
      <atom:link rel="current"
       href="http://liftoff.example.net/index.rss"/>
      <atom:link rel="prev-archive"
       href="http://liftoff.example.net/2003/04/index.rss"/>

      <item>
       <description>Sky watchers in Europe, Asia, and parts of
       Alaska and Canada will experience a partial eclipse of the Sun
       on Saturday, May 31st.</description>
       <pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2003 11:06:42 GMT</pubDate>
       <guid>http://liftoff.nasa.gov/2003/05/30.html#item572</guid>
      </item>
      <item>
       <title>The Engine That Does More</title>
       <link>http://liftoff.example.net/2003/05/news-VASIMR.html</link>
       <description>Before man travels to Mars, NASA hopes to
       design new engines that will let us fly through the Solar
       System more quickly. The proposed VASIMR engine would do
       that.</description>
       <pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2003 08:37:32 GMT</pubDate>
       <guid>http://liftoff.example.net/2003/05/news-VASIMR.html</guid>
      </item>
     </channel>
    </rss>

---

From: "Franklin Tse" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 19:36:38 +0800

> The update time of an entry is not defined by RSS 2.0.

The update time of an RSS 2 item can be determined by atom:updated or dcterms:modified, or pubDate if both of the above do not present. Should this be mentioned?

Franklin

---

From: Mark Nottingham <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:29:34 +1000

The same could be said about Atom, with extensions to it. I'm  
reluctant to enumerate them all, because a) there's a question of  
precedence then, and b) it's an open list; more can always be defined.

On 10/06/2007, at 9:36 PM, Franklin Tse wrote:

> The update time of an RSS 2 item can be determined by atom:updated  
> or dcterms:modified, or pubDate if both of the above do not  
> present. Should this be mentioned?
>
> Franklin
>