Subject: [CGA-EXT] Meeting minutes

From: marcelo bagnulo braun <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 13:27:52 +0100

Hi,

First of all, i would like to thank Suresh and Mikko for the notes!!

I attach the meeting minutes, let me know if you have some corrections.

Regards, marcelo

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CSI BoF Minutes
THURSDAY, December 6, 2007
9:00 - 11:30 - Salon D/E
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AGENDA

1. Agenda, Bluesheets, Note-takers and Jabber scribes    5 Mins

2. Work Motivation, proposed charter presentation
    Gabriel Montenegro & Marcelo Bagnulo                 30 Mins

3. IPv6 Secure ND implementation report on Cisco IOS
    Eric Levy-Abegnoli                                   10 Mins

4. IPv6 Secure ND implementation report by DoCoMo
    Julien Laganier                                       5 Mins

5. Proxy-SeND
    Suresh Krishnan                                      10 Mins

6. DHCP, CGAs and SeND interaction
    Iljitsch van Beijnum                                 10 Mins

7. Discussion
    All                                                  30 Mins

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1. Agenda, Bluesheets, Note-takers and Jabber scribes    5 Mins

Scribes: Mikko Sarela and Suresh Krishnan

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2. Work Motivation, proposed charter presentation

Marcelo presented send status
SeND: limited deployment, considerable potential
Widespread adoption soon expected
A whole bunch of drafts in this area

General areas of work:
- Crypto agility for send (exists for cga)
- Hash function analysis for SEND
- SEND support for proxy ND
- DHCP intergration for CGAs

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3. IPv6 Secure ND implementation report on Cisco IOS by Eric Levy- 
Abegnoli

Very few implementation issues
Ready for interop testing now

Main issues
===========
* How to allow non-CGA addresses for routers?
* Issues with DoS attacks using SEND Timestamps

Francis Dupont (FD) thinks the same attack exists against plain old ND

* How to put in many nonces into multicast RAs in response to  
multiple RSs?
* Provisional acceptance of certificates causes issues with repeated  
CRL checks
* Possible conflicts with RFC4861 behavior

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
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4. IPv6 Secure ND implementation report by DoCoMo by Julien Laganier

Completely implemented in user space
Downloads steadily going down (total of 67)
Require more people to try this and give feedback
Will try to interop with Cisco IOS

Francis Dupont thinks it is not possible to have a compliant  
implementation in
userland. He wants to know if there are plans?
Julien does not think so
ELA explains about not adding entries into NC as an example
Alex Petrescu discusses about software architectures (kernel vs user...)
Jari Arkko (JA) would like to have more implementations (perhaps  
kernel+userland
based)

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5. Proxy-SeND by Suresh Krishnan

Problem with proxying and SEND, because SEND assumes that the address
owner and the advertiser are always the same.

Steps to solution:
Separate address ownership and advertiser
Add indication of proxying into SEND packet
Provide mechanisms to establish trust between the proxy, proxied, and
the receiver

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6. DHCP, CGAs and SeND interaction by Iljitsch van Beijnum

Use to distribute Sec values across the network
- is this network policy or host policy?

IvB thinks the main use cases for using DHCP with CGA are

* Offloading hashing for sec>0
* Address registration
* Certificate provisioning

Alex thinks that subnet allocation depends on the discussions in 6man
and dhc wgs

Ill wants to do an analysis in csi and go back to 6man and dhc with
the results

ELA mentions a proposal in dhc for sending send certs with DHCPv6-PD

Jari thinks that that particular proposal has unresolved issues.
Division of work: DHC wg – who ever wants to use DHCP for carrying
new things, has to know its things and DHC will review options, etc. but
don't drive the work. DHCP related things will be studied here, not in
DHC wg.

Jean-Michel Combes (JMC) thinks there are other proposals possible e.g
using BU/BA. He wants a single location to discuss this

JMC thinks that a proxy ND solution needs to address anycast addresses

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7. Discussion

Alex wants to know about IPR

Jari (with disclaimer working for IPR owner) The licenses are  
royaltee free
for the base specs
For extensions in this wg we need to deal with them on a case by case  
basis

Christian Vogt thinks CGAs are a great tool to get security without
infrastructure irrespective of IPR

IvB and Alex wants clearer text for proxy SEND

JMC wants to add anycast explicitly

Marcelo is not sure a single solution is possible

Alex talks about using SEND to protect DHAAD

FD wants to know more about the CGA+DHCP item

Marcelo thinks we need to analyse the problem space first and come up
with possible work items.

Jari agrees with Marcelo and thinks further work requires a recharter.

Ralph explains that dhc extensions are done in outside wgs but he  
prefers
early collaboration and review to avoid late surprises

Fred wants to know if client can propose CGA IID to DHCP

Ralph thinks there is no technical restriction to put prefix info
into DHCP

Gabe, Jari, and JMC want to include a specific point in the charter
for certificate provisioning

Khadra Ahmed wants to document the certificate management and define a
certificate profile

Marcelo thinks the first part (cert mgmt) will be covered by certificate
provisioning item

KA to write up some text and send it out

Jari thinks that 3971 updates are needed based on the implementation
proposals

SK wants to know about other signature algorithms for SEND

JMC wants to know about IKEv2 and CGA interaction

Jari thinks this group should focus on ND and DHCP and IPv6 control
signaling. More general applications need another BoF possibly in  
another
area, but feel free to submit proposals in other areas

FD wants to secure MLD

Gabe has a proposal using CGAs for this but it is out of scope for  
this charter

Judging consensus
=================

Show of hands for support vs not support
50-0

Will actively participate and review
25

Have interest + time
10-15 people

Happy with high level charter with agreed additions
20-0

Jari needs to discuss details further

Elwyn Davies asks what to do if not eough people with time to cover all
targets. Need to prioritize

Jari thinks more implementations coming out soon. Need to do updates
first. DHCP and proxy are low priority.

Tony thinks the info dhcp document may be useful. Does not need to be
short term.

Jari thinks getting the protocol clarifications seems the most important
thing. Because otherwise the implementations will do something funny.
DHCP not so immediate.

There are some people who may see value in doing the DHCP now.

END OF MEETING

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