Subject: [clue] CLUE schema definition proposal

From: Simon Pietro Romano <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 16:37:36 +0200

Dear all,

together with Roberta Presta, I have lately tried to get in synch with the current state of the art in CLUE. In the next few days, we're going to provide you with some feedback about both the framework and the data model.
In the meantime, we have started to work on a schema definition for CLUE, which has been included in a straw-man draft proposal that you can find on-line at the following URL:

http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-presta-clue-data-model-schema-00.txt

We hope this can foster discussion and prove useful for completing the on-going work. As a first, very high level comment, we think that the framework document might be somehow restructured in order to just contain the
overall description of the CLUE architecture and components, without delving into the details associated with the data structures. On the other hand, a new document might be proposed, which basically merges the already existing
data model draft from Allyn and Andy (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-romanow-clue-data-model-01) and the 'schema definition' draft we are working on. If this sounds reasonable to the WG, we might then also add some more information
to the current call flows documents (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-romanow-clue-call-flow-02 and http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kyzivat-clue-telemedical-callflow-01), basically showing the exact content of the CLUE messages (and transported data). For this last part, we might work on automatically generating CLUE-compliant data structures, starting from the schema definition, in much the same way as we did for both XCON and MEDIACTRL in the past.

If you think this is worth discussing, we can talk about the details during next Monday's conference call.

Cheers,

Simon and Roberta

                     					       _\\|//_
                           				      ( O-O )
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~o00~~(_)~~00o~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    				Simon Pietro Romano
             				 Universita' di Napoli Federico II
                		     Computer Engineering Department 
	             Phone: +39 081 7683823 -- Fax: +39 081 7683816
                                           e-mail: [email-masked]

		    <<Molti mi dicono che lo scoraggiamento Ë l'alibi degli 
		    idioti. Ci rifletto un istante; e mi scoraggio>>. Magritte.
               			                     oooO
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(   )~~~ Oooo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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			                                  \_)          ) /
                                                                       (_/

---

From: Paul Kyzivat <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 16:03:21 -0400

Simon, Roberta,

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!!!

We really need this and until now it seemed we had nobody with the 
knowledge, cycles, and interest to do it.

EVERYBODY: Please review this carefully and comment on things that don't 
agree with your understanding.

I don't expect this to be "right" initially. One of the primary values 
it has is that it gives a formal syntax, rather than a vague one. So it 
is easier for someone to decide if it agrees with their understanding. 
So I expect review and discussion of this to result in a feedback loop 
with refinements to both this syntax and the framework.

I will do a review myself. I expect I will do it a bit at a time, 
sending comments/questions as I go. I know enough XML to read and 
understand this, but not enough to write such a schema correctly, with 
good style and according to current best practice.

	Thanks,
	Paul

On 9/27/12 10:37 AM, Simon Pietro Romano wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> together with Roberta Presta, I have lately tried to get in synch with
> the current state of the art in CLUE. In the next few days, we're going
> to provide you with some feedback about both the framework and the data
> model.
> In the meantime, we have started to work on a schema definition for
> CLUE, which has been included in a straw-man draft proposal that you can
> find on-line at the following URL:
>
> We hope this can foster discussion and prove useful for completing the
> on-going work. As a first, very high level comment, we think that the
> framework document might be somehow restructured in order to just
> contain the
> overall description of the CLUE architecture and components, without
> delving into the details associated with the data structures. On the
> other hand, a new document might be proposed, which basically merges the
> already existing
> data model draft from Allyn and Andy
> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-romanow-clue-data-model-01) and the
> 'schema definition' draft we are working on. If this sounds reasonable
> to the WG, we might then also add some more information
> to the current call flows documents
> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-romanow-clue-call-flow-02 and
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kyzivat-clue-telemedical-callflow-01),
> basically showing the exact content of the CLUE messages (and
> transported data). For this last part, we might work on automatically
> generating CLUE-compliant data structures, starting from the schema
> definition, in much the same way as we did for both XCON and MEDIACTRL
> in the past.
>
> <mailto:[email-masked]>
>
> _______________________________________________
> clue mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue
>

---

From: Mary Barnes <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 16:01:43 -0500

I think it would be really good to have some discussion of this on Monday's
design team call as well.

Mary.

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Paul Kyzivat <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I don't expect this to be "right" initially. One of the primary values it
> has is that it gives a formal syntax, rather than a vague one. So it is
> easier for someone to decide if it agrees with their understanding. So I
> expect review and discussion of this to result in a feedback loop with
> refinements to both this syntax and the framework.
>
> I will do a review myself. I expect I will do it a bit at a time, sending
> comments/questions as I go. I know enough XML to read and understand this,
> but not enough to write such a schema correctly, with good style and
> according to current best practice.
>
>         Thanks,
>         Paul
>
>
>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-**presta-clue-data-model-schema-**00.txt<http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-presta-clue-data-model-schema-00.txt>
>>
>> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/**draft-romanow-clue-data-model-**01<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-romanow-clue-data-model-01>)
>> and the
>> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/**draft-romanow-clue-call-flow-**02<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-romanow-clue-call-flow-02>and
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/**draft-kyzivat-clue-**telemedical-callflow-01<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kyzivat-clue-telemedical-callflow-01>
>> ),
>>     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~o00~~(_)**~~00o~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Simon Pietro Romano
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> clue mailing list
>> [email-masked]
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/clue<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue>
>>
>>
> ______________________________**_________________
> clue mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/clue<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue>
>

---

From: "Roni Even" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 14:55:20 +0200

Hi,

I was able to have a first look.

1.       For the capture area using elements names like topUp should be
topLeft and topRight

2.       The framework is not clear about what elements are mandatory and
when. For example “spatialDescriptionType” has  minOccurs=0.  I am not sure
if this should be optional.  I am also not sure if you supply the
information only capturePoint and scale are required. This becomes clear in
the example where the mediaCaptures are syntactically  correct but since
they lack the spatial description they are not conveying any information to
show which one is left middle and right. My view is that the major goal of
CLUE is to support the option to provide spatial information and without
having the spatial description as required it does not make any sense.

Thanks

Roni

From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
Simon Pietro Romano
Sent: 27 September, 2012 4:38 PM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: Roberta Presta
Subject: [clue] CLUE schema definition proposal

Dear all,

together with Roberta Presta, I have lately tried to get in synch with the
current state of the art in CLUE. In the next few days, we're going to
provide you with some feedback about both the framework and the data model.

In the meantime, we have started to work on a schema definition for CLUE,
which has been included in a straw-man draft proposal that you can find
on-line at the following URL:

We hope this can foster discussion and prove useful for completing the
on-going work. As a first, very high level comment, we think that the
framework document might be somehow restructured in order to just contain
the

overall description of the CLUE architecture and components, without delving
into the details associated with the data structures. On the other hand, a
new document might be proposed, which basically merges the already existing

data model draft from Allyn and Andy
(http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-romanow-clue-data-model-01) and the
'schema definition' draft we are working on. If this sounds reasonable to
the WG, we might then also add some more information

to the current call flows documents
(http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-romanow-clue-call-flow-02 and
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kyzivat-clue-telemedical-callflow-01),
basically showing the exact content of the CLUE messages (and transported
data). For this last part, we might work on automatically generating
CLUE-compliant data structures, starting from the schema definition, in much
the same way as we did for both XCON and MEDIACTRL in the past.

If you think this is worth discussing, we can talk about the details during
next Monday's conference call.

Cheers,

Simon and Roberta

_\\|//_

( O-O )

                                                            Simon Pietro
Romano

                                                             Universita' di
Napoli Federico II

                            <<Molti mi dicono che lo scoraggiamento Ë
l'alibi degli 

                            idioti. Ci rifletto un istante; e mi
scoraggio>>. Magritte.

                                                                     oooO

\ (            (   )

                                                                      \_)
) /

                                                                       (_/