Subject: [Detnet] DetNet – TSN Workshop

From: Lou Berger <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 09:43:45 +0700

Hi,

     I just wanted to echo what Janos stated in today's TSN meeting for 
those who were not present:

Thank you ~100 of you who participated in this workshop.  I/we know it 
was an imposition to stay until Sunday after the IETF, and appreciate 
your stamina to continue the good the discussion past our anticipated 
end time.

We also thank those in the IEEE who worked all the logistics and took 
care of us so well.  Janos really did a great job  bridging the IEEE / 
IETF organizations.

For those who were unable to attend, the information and material from 
the workshop are available at:

https://1.ieee802.org/tsn/tsn-task-group-agenda/#Sunday_DetNet_8211_TSN_joint_session

Some key takeaways are listed on the last slide of the 1st link (Intro & 
Meeting Objectives)
http://www.ieee802.org/1/files/public/docs2018/detnet-tsn-farkas-chairs-intro-1118-v03.pdf
and includes:
     To be documented and discussed in the short term
     – Document DetNet over TSN operation for routers and end-stations
         [DetNet WG]
     – Mapping DetNet traffic markings to TSN Stream ID [DetNet WG]
     – Mapping DetNet service parameters to TSN queuing mechanisms
         [DetNet WG]
       o N:1 stream aggregation (network calculus for bounded latency,
         and queuing) [Joint]
     – Alignment of YANG models [Joint]
     – IEC/IEEE 60802 DetNet requirements [Joint]

     Question: How do we coordinate joint work?

     Longer term topics
     – Document optimized TSN aware DetNet end-station
     – DetNet/TSN control plane interworking

Not capture on the slide is the discussed answer to "How do we 
coordinate joint work?"
The general agreement was that we will continue to work as we have been, 
i.e., individuals will help coordinate activities by participating and 
contributing in both groups; we will use formal liaisons when deemed 
appropriate by either group; and we will leverage the IEEE/IETF 
coordination activity, see 
https://www.iab.org/activities/joint-activities/iab-ieee-coordination/ .

There were other topics and details discussed that didn't make it to the 
slide.  If you attended or see something on one the slides that you'd 
like to follow up on with the WG, please send a message to the list with 
a different and appropriate subject line -- even if responding to this 
message.

Thanks again,

Lou

---

From: János Farkas <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 05:40:55 +0100

Hi,

Indeed, many thanks to all who have made it possible and contributed to 
the workshop.

Thank you very much for the summary Lou!

The summary slide is the last slide of the chairs intro deck. The 
current version is: 
http://www.ieee802.org/1/files/public/docs2018/detnet-tsn-farkas-chairs-intro-1118-v03.pdf. 

The presentations are available at:
http://www.ieee802.org/1/files/public/docs2018/
each file name starts with "detnet-tsn" and includes the date "1118", 
which corresponds to the month and the year (MMYY).

The web page used for the agenda provides live agenda during the meeting 
week:
https://1.ieee802.org/tsn/tsn-task-group-agenda/#Sunday_DetNet_8211_TSN_joint_session
After the meeting, week, the agenda will be archived at:
https://1.ieee802.org/november-2018-plenary-meeting-in-bangkok-thailand-tsn-tg-agenda/ 

(Note that the meeting material remains in 
http://www.ieee802.org/1/files/public/docs2018/, it is just linked from 
the agenda page.)

Thank you!
Best regards,
János

On 11/12/2018 3:43 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
> Some key takeaways are listed on the last slide of the 1st link (Intro 
> & Meeting Objectives)
> The general agreement was that we will continue to work as we have 
> been, i.e., individuals will help coordinate activities by 
> participating and contributing in both groups; we will use formal 
> liaisons when deemed appropriate by either group; and we will leverage 
> the IEEE/IETF coordination activity, see 
> There were other topics and details discussed that didn't make it to 
> the slide.  If you attended or see something on one the slides that 
> you'd like to follow up on with the WG, please send a message to the 
> list with a different and appropriate subject line -- even if 
> responding to this message.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Lou
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> detnet mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet

---

From: Lou Berger <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 12:27:48 +0700

Hi,

The point was raised yesterday that we need a simple solution for 
industrial hosts which need to be as simple as possible.  They are 
largely unaware of the distinction of if they operate over a single TSN 
subnet or over (DetNet) router interconnected TSN subnets. In the 
mentioned use case, the hosts are IP aware and understand they are 
operating routers, but really don't want different control mechanisms 
for the TSN standalone case and DetNet case.

We've talked about this case in the past and identified two different 
solution approaches and are pursuing the first. I think this use case 
says we should also be pursuing  the second.  The approaches are:

1) TSN interconnect over MPLS

     There is currently a place holder in the mpls solutions draft for 
this (section 9). It is limited to the interconnection of TSN domains 
where source and destination are on the same TSN subnet -- this 
limitation does not match the use case requirements of operation over a 
routed network.

2) TSN inter-working with DetNet

     We decided to defer this case when discussed previously. Based on 
the Workshop discussion, I think we should document this use case.  The 
main impact is really on control interworking.  It is worth documenting 
this case in the IP data plane document even though it really doesn't 
have significant impact on data plane processing.

What do people think?

Lou

(as contributor)