Subject: Re: [dhcwg] AD review of draft-ietf-dhc-unused-optioncodes-03.txt

From: Thomas Narten <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:18:13 -0400

> >A more descriptive title might be better? E.g.:
> >
> >   Reclaiming Unused DHCP Option Codes for Reassignment for Future DHCP
> >   Options.
> >
> >(or something similar)

> OK.

I note that the revised ID stil has the old title. Did you decide to
leave it as is?

> > > Normative References
> >
> >Hmm. Aren't all of the references actually informative? Which ones are
> >critical to *this* document?

To clarify, to me normative means you have to go look at the reference
in order to understand the document being discussed. If the document
is self-contained, it doesn't have to have any normative references.

> I think at least this ref is normative:

>     [1]  Assigned Numbers Editor, IANA., "BOOTP and DHCP Parameters",
>          http://www.iana.org/assignments/bootp-dhcp-parameters,
>          February 2003.

I can go either way. One doesn't need to go look at the IANA registry
to understand this document.

> And this ref gives the definition of the PXE options, and should
> be normative:

>     [4]  Intel Corporation, , "Preboot Execution Environment (PXE)
>          Specification Version 2.1",
>          http://www.pix.net/software/pxeboot/archive/pxespec.pdf,
>          September 1999.

But to understand this document, one doesn't have to go read the PXE
document. 

> This ref is arguably normative as it defines a potential use
> for two of the options under review:

>     [5]  Volz, B., Droms, R. and T. Lemon, "Extending DHCP Options
>          Codes", draft-volz-dhc-extended-optioncodes-00.txt (work in
>          progress), September 2000.

Again, I'd argue not critical to understand this document. Another
thing to consider. An ID can't be published as an RFC until all the
normative references are also published. Thus, if the above is
normative, this document needs to wait for the other to be done. I
suspect that is not the intent.

In any case, I've asked that the LC be started.

Thomas

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---

From: Ralph Droms <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:37:05 -0400

>I note that the revised ID stil has the old title. Did you decide to

Nope; I seem to have overlooked changing the title...

>to understand this document.

Well, perhaps I've written this doc to be sufficiently self-contained
to avoid normative references.  Guess I was trying to err in the direction
of assuming minimal background in DHCP on the part of the reader...

>suspect that is not the intent.

"normative references are also published" as an RFC?

>In any case, I've asked that the LC be started.

Thanks...

- Ralph

---

From: Thomas Narten <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:40:40 -0400

> "normative references are also published" as an RFC?

FYI, from http://www.rfc-editor.org/policy.html 

> References Section
> 
> Nearly all RFCs contain citations to other documents, and these are
> listed in a References section near the end of the RFC. There are many
> styles for references, and the RFCs have one of their own. Please
> follow the reference style used in recent RFCs. For protocols that
> have been assigned STD numbers, the STD number must be included in the
> reference.
> 
> Within an RFC, references to other documents fall into two general
> categories: "normative" and "informative". Normative references
> specify documents that must be read to understand or implement the
> technology in the new RFC, or whose technology must be present for the
> technology in the new RFC to work. An informative reference is not
> normative; rather, it only provides additional information. For
> example, an informative reference might provide background or
> historical information. Informative references are not required to
> implement the technology in the RFC.
> 
> The distinction between normative and informative references is often
> important. The IETF standards process and the RFC Editor publication
> process both need to know whether a reference to a work in progress is
> normative. An RFC cannot be published until all of the documents that
> it lists as normative references have been published. In practice,
> this often results in the simultaneous publication of a group of
> inter- related RFCs.
> 
> For these reasons, the IESG and the RFC Editor are preparing new
> guidelines that will request separate reference lists for normative
> and informative references in RFCs. For example, of both types are
> present, there might be two reference sections, numbered s and s+1,
> for example:
> 
>                s. Normative References
> 
>                    xxx
>                     ...
>                    xxx
> 
>               s+1. Informative References
> 
>                    xxx
>                     ...
>                    xxx
> 
> 
>

---

From: Robert Elz <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 04:21:20 +0700

Date:        Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:37:05 -0400
    From:        Ralph Droms <[email-masked]>
    Message-ID:  <[email-masked]>

  | Well, perhaps I've written this doc to be sufficiently self-contained
  | to avoid normative references.

It is hard to imagine how you could have done it any other way.

Thomas is quite correct here, this doc needs none.

It would need one, if there was a protocol for deleting unused
DHCP option codes, and you wanted to say "The unused DHCP option
protocol [RFC9876] is to be used to delete option 666".

Then without reading that RFC you wouldn't know what to do, so that's
a normative reference.

"Normative" does not mean "important", the split isn't between the
references that you consider to be really on point. or useful for
the reader - only those for which the document makes no sense without
an earlier doc.

And yes, that does mean that a normative reference must be published as
an RFC (or in some equivalent fixed form, an IS would be OK, as would
a journal article describing an algorithm - an I-D or web page is not)
before the doc making the reference can be published.

kre