Subject: [DNSOP] Fwd: Re: Roll Over and Die ?

From: Todd Glassey <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:54:09 -0800

The real answer Tony is coming out of left field and it is the legal 
claims being asserted against people intentionally fielding code they 
know is broken and for which they refused to accept criticism's about 
that code (oddly enough from people like Dean and I and a number of others.

The real fun part is the legal liability this is creating for people who 
in this list claim they have a right to ignore whatever they want, and 
its coming...

So the real issue is whether there is a class action matter coming 
against the ISC and a number of the projects it operates per this new 
accountability push.

This is NOT good for any of these projects so I suggest that the proper 
response is a new level of transparency in who is making what decisions 
for the WG and how they are made regarding design testing and otherwise.

Just my two cents as a civilian.

Todd Glasssey

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Re: [DNSOP] Roll Over and Die ?
Date: 	Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:35:59 +0000
From: 	Tony Finch <[email-masked]>
To: 	George Barwood <[email-masked]>
CC: 	[email-masked]

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010, George Barwood wrote:

>  Any reaction to this CircleID article ?
>
>  http://www.circleid.com/posts/dns_resolvers_and_dnssec_roll_over_and_die/

https://www.isc.org/announcement/response-to-concerns10Feb
http://unbound.net/pipermail/unbound-users/2010-February/001031.html

Tony.
-- 
f.anthony.n.finch<[email-masked]>   http://dotat.at/
GERMAN BIGHT HUMBER: SOUTHWEST 5 TO 7. MODERATE OR ROUGH. SQUALLY SHOWERS.
MODERATE OR GOOD.
_______________________________________________
DNSOP mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop

---

From: Dr Eberhard Lisse <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:31:59 +0200

Me being only a lurker here always thought that nobody put a gun to
my head using open source, never mind caveat emptor.

el

greetings, el

-- 
Dr. Eberhard W. Lisse  \        / Obstetrician & Gynaecologist (Saar)
[email-masked] el108-ARIN / *     |   Telephone: +264 81 124 6733 (cell)
PO Box 8421             \     /   Please do NOT email to this address
Bachbrecht, Namibia     ;____/        if it is DNS related in ANY way

---

From: Joe Baptista <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:15:12 -0500

not bad for two cents. worth a lot more in advice.

Heres my two cents. DNSSEC is broken. DNSSEC will cause economic harm as it
adds to business costs. There's one liability. And DNSSEC is not needed. We
have options. DNSCurve works http://bit.ly/cjmH2n - let's try something that
works?

That would certainly be an innovative move forward for the ietf.

cheers
joe baptista

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Todd Glassey <[email-masked]>wrote:

> claims being asserted against people intentionally fielding code they know
> is broken and for which they refused to accept criticism's about that code
> (oddly enough from people like Dean and I and a number of others.
>
> The real fun part is the legal liability this is creating for people who in
> this list claim they have a right to ignore whatever they want, and its
> coming...
>
> So the real issue is whether there is a class action matter coming against
> the ISC and a number of the projects it operates per this new accountability
> push.
>
> response is a new level of transparency in who is making what decisions for
> the WG and how they are made regarding design testing and otherwise.
>
> -------- Original Message --------  Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Roll Over and Die
> ?  Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:35:59 +0000  From: Tony Finch <[email-masked]><[email-masked]>  To:
> George Barwood <[email-masked]><[email-masked]>  CC:
> [email-masked]
>
> https://www.isc.org/announcement/response-to-concerns10Febhttp://unbound.net/pipermail/unbound-users/2010-February/001031.html
>
>
>

---

From: Todd Glassey <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:06:10 -0800

> my head using open source, never mind caveat emptor.
El - in fact that is ONLY true on paper. If you have to remove all of 
the open source components from something like LINUX you are toast. It 
cannot be done as far as I can tell - same is true for anyone using NTP 
and DHCP as well. This is beginning to get pretty ugly too.

The Vendor's who ship BIND as a part of their OS's are being told that 
they must pay the ISC to 'join the forum' to get early notice of the 
bugs and security flaws found by parties outside of the ISC itself and 
that is possibly the biggest issue.

You figure out the implications from there - they are pretty obvious.

Todd Glassey
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2694 - Release Date: 02/17/10 22:30:00
>
>

---

From: Joe Abley <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:16:44 -0800

Todd,

On 2010-02-18, at 10:06, Todd Glassey wrote:

> El - in fact that is ONLY true on paper. If you have to remove all of the open source components from something like LINUX you are toast. It cannot be done as far as I can tell - same is true for anyone using NTP and DHCP as well. This is beginning to get pretty ugly too. 

As far as I can see, this has nothing whatsoever to with the work of the dnsop working group.

Perhaps the conversation could be taken elsewhere?

Joe

---

From: Doug Barton <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:28:44 -0800

> that is possibly the biggest issue.

I'm sort of hesitant to shovel troll-food into the trough here,
particularly since the topic is not relevant on this list, but since I
think it might be helpful for others I would like to present at least
one data point that contradicts your statement above.

I maintain BIND-related stuff for FreeBSD, both in the ports tree and in
the base. We received a membership in the BIND Forum at no cost that
includes both advance notice of security vulnerabilities and advance
access to new code. This information has been very useful in having
patches and updates ready to go for our users when the vulnerabilities
are released publicly. My understanding (although I don't speak for ISC)
is that this type of membership is available to other FOSS projects as
well with similar terms.

If anyone has questions I'll be glad to answer them off-list to the
extent that I can. Info on the BIND Forum is available here:
http://www.isc.org/software/guild/bf

Doug

- -- 

	... and that's just a little bit of history repeating.
			-- Propellerheads

	Improve the effectiveness of your Internet presence with
	a domain name makeover!    http://SupersetSolutions.com/

---

From: Todd Glassey <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:09:12 -0800

>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
>
Unfortunately for you Doug there is no difference between the word 
NIGGER and the word TROLL and its time to escalate this into a formal 
complaint considering the actions in this and other working groups to 
parties they label as "Trolls".

As I have said, there is no difference between this and the Jim Crow 
actions which separated blacks from the white population in then US and 
the application of the concept of racially unfit parties as Trolls 
within the IETF, which also of course brings us to the question of how 
many people of color are management within the IETF?.

Have a nice day.

Todd Glassey
> access to new code.\
>   This information has been very useful in having
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (FreeBSD)
>
> iEYEAREDAAYFAkuDdZwACgkQyIakK9Wy8PtSCgCgnYniyQOQDcgfl042d1vZ/ZMk
> bwAAn1i1OBiAseQ2K0rl6q90Gl0vkD+d
> =CSwh
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2704 - Release Date: 02/22/10 19:34:00
>
>

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:26:57 +0000

> many people of color are management within the IETF?.

	Why thank you, I will.  And the same to you.
	In answer to your question; "how many people of color are management
	within the IETF?" I think I have an answer for you.

	All of them.  No person that I am aware of in the ietf management
	chain are transparent - all reflect light at various points on 
	the spectrum.  With this information, you may now make the claim
	that the IETF management is opaque, lacking transparency... and
	you would be technically correct.

	any other little questions bothering you that we might help with?

--bill

---

From: Joe Baptista <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:32:39 -0500

>        you would be technically correct.
Bill. You disappoint me. Your being evasive. Todd is asking you how many
people in management positions at the IETF are black. Or as they used to
call them in the ol south - People of "color" or  "Negroes" or the more
vulgar derisive and offensive term "niggers".

regards
joe baptista

---

From: Jay Daley <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:31:03 +1300

If it isn't bad enough that we're arguing about the inclusion of infinitesimally small probabilities as risks for DNSSEC, moving onto issues of race and colour is so much worse.  This subject is entirely out of scope for this list and there are other lists it can move to.

warmest regards

Jay  
(who by the way is dark-skinned but doesn't feel that is relevant to anything but had to mention it just in case anyone accused him of trying to curtail a discussion for prejudicial reasons rather than for the real reason, which is that it is nothing whatsoever to do with DNS operations)

-- 
Jay Daley
Chief Executive
.nz Registry Services
desk: +64 4 931 6977
mobile: +64 21 678840

---

From: Peter Koch <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:27:41 +0100

Dear WG,

> 	any other little questions bothering you that we might help with?

may I ask everybody to remain calm and on topic on this list and to neither
engage into personal attacks nor to misinterpret any such attack by others,
perceived or real, as an invitation to a race towards low standards in group
communications?

Thanks,
  Peter [chair hat on]

---

From: Todd Glassey <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 07:28:31 -0800

> 	you would be technically correct.
Yes and its composed of comedians who think these things can be laughed 
or belittled away (like you evidently)... The problem we are talking 
about is ethics and the lack of it here in the IETF and laughing about 
how stupid the complaint is shows how corrupt the management of this WG 
and others are (are you offended - good - I have been for some time now)...
> 	any other little questions bothering you that we might help with?
Yes - as to who you formally represent here in the IETF...
> --bill
Bill - you clearly document the problem you and many others have created 
here. This isn't funny since anyone who fails to "formally put their 
sponsors on notice that they also would be liable there may in those 
instances be creating a fraud complaint as well" since most all 
participants I believe are lying through heir teeth as to whether they 
hold power of attorney for their sponsors here.

Bill - this is simple - the transparency (and specifically the lack of 
it) you joke about is why people at ENRON were capable of screwing their 
investors - the question is where these actions are finally stopped - 
and whether that takes court and damage claims against the comedians 
here on the list.

Todd Glassey

> Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2705 - Release Date: 02/23/10 07:34:00
>
>

---

From: Doug Barton <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:10:53 -0800

> I'm sort of hesitant to shovel troll-food into the trough here,

Having reflected on this a bit I want to apologize for using this
terminology. I should have stayed focused on the issue I was responding
to, or better yet just ignored the issue altogether.

Regards,

Doug

- --

---

From: "Bradley D. Thornton" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:01:59 -0800

Bill gave a both accurate and comprehensive answer to that inappropriate 
question.

Joe, how many convicted Portuguese terrorists are members of your 
immediate family?

Joe Baptista wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 4:26 PM, <[email-masked] 
> <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
>
> Bill. You disappoint me. Your being evasive. Todd is asking you how 
> many people in management positions at the IETF are black. Or as they 
> used to call them in the ol south - People of "color" or  "Negroes" or 
> the more vulgar derisive and offensive term "niggers".
>
> regards
> joe baptista
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

-- 
Kindest regards,

Bradley D. Thornton
Manager Network Services
NorthTech Computer
TEL: +1.760.666.2703
http://NorthTech.US

---

From: Dr Eberhard W Lisse <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 08:38:25 +0200

Hi,

I know this is off topic for these two lists, and would
therefor request only replies to my email address, unless
this is found of interest.  However given the accumulated
centuries of experience here, and because this historic
stuff might be quite interesting I felt I could be forgiven
for trying :-)-O.

I registered .NA in 1991, but have unfortunately lost the
emails from that time.  I would love to reconstruct this,
not only for my own personal use, but also, because during
"work" in the ICANN ccNSO Delegation-, Re-delegation and
Deletion Working Group where we are looking at current
"policy" and "procedures" we found that we not only have no
definitions what TLDs or even "domains" actually are, but we
also do not really know how this all came about.

I am looking for two people working at the DDN.MIL
Hostmaster around 1990/1991, namely Sue Kirkpatrick, nee
Romano and Douglas MacGowan, both of whom handled .ZA a few
months before .NA and thus may be able to help (direct) my
search.

Thanks to Randy Bush kindly sending me some staff he had
already in 2003 I remember that James Revell
[email-masked] who has retired as far as I know,
forwarded the application and set up the name servers.  I
would *REALLY* like to get in touch with him and of course
if someone who would know whether and how one can find
records from UUNET's side could contact me would be
appreciated greatly.

Anyone else having information about how this was handled
before let's say 1994 (when RFC 1591 became the guiding
document), for any ccTLD is also more than welcome to
contact me directly.  Anyone who registered ccTLDs during
that time and is willing to share the email correspondence
would be also greatly appreciated.

Should this be widely off topic, I apologize.

el
-- 
Dr. Eberhard W. Lisse  \        /      Obstetrician & Gynaecologist
[email-masked]            / *     | Telephone: +264 81 124 6733 (cell)
PO Box 8421             \     / Please do NOT email to this address
Bachbrecht, Namibia     ;____/      if it is DNS related in ANY way