Subject: [edu-team] Training on making IETF presentations?

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:50:09 +0100

Have we thought about specific training on making presentations at
IETF WG sessions? Keith Moore wrote to the IETF list:

> ...it [wireless] further exacerbates the
> phenomenon where meetings consist of highly scripted presentations 
> rather than discussion time.  most people don't pay attention to the 
> presentations because the information content is so low, so they use
> their laptops to keep them occupied.

While this was part of a diatribe against wireless, he has a point.
When people have been trained in preparing and making presentations,
it is oriented towards being persuasive in a business context, and
that isn't particularly what we need for IETF WGs.

    Brian

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From: avri doria <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:48:39 -0500

Hi,

It might be worth adding to the newcomers presentation.  though if we 
add enough we risk making it a 90 minute or 2 hr session.

a.

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From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:27:47 +0100

It seems to me that some old-timers also need this particular
bit of training. Maybe we need to run a refresher course in
IETF 101 once a year?

    Brian

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From: avri doria <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 07:22:15 -0500

That might be a good idea.  I wonder how we would get them to a class 
on Sunday?  Perhaps this is something that is appropriate for a short 
plenary session.  though that has its own risks and issues.

a.

On 15 mar 2005, at 02.27, Brian E Carpenter wrote:

>>>> rather than discussion time.  most people don't pay attention to 
>>>> the presentations because the information content is so low, so 
>>>> they use

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From: Margaret Wasserman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:06:48 -0500

Before you do any sort of training on how to present at the IETF, you 
need to decide what your goals are...

I have no doubt that IETF meetings were more efficient/productive 
when they contained a small number of highly-educated, native English 
speakers with a limited cultural range gathered around a white board. 
People could talk without slides and argue subtle points in a working 
group meeting without the concern that they were leaving anyone 
behind.  But, this just isn't true of the IETF today.

Today, we are a global community of people with a much wider range of 
professional/educational backgrounds, language skills and cultures. 
I have _repeatedly_ been told by Asian audiences (and even sometimes 
by fluent non-native English speakers like Bert Wijnen) that I talk 
too fast and that I should put more information on my PowerPoint 
slides (I used to just do a few pictures, as they teach you in 
presentation classes) to allow them to follow my presentation.  So, I 
do.  I am completely aware that this makes the presentation slower 
and less interesting to native English speakers, but so what?

Margaret

At 7:22 AM -0500 3/15/05, avri doria wrote:
>That might be a good idea.  I wonder how we would get them to a 
>class on Sunday?  Perhaps this is something that is appropriate for 
>a short plenary session.  though that has its own risks and issues.
>
>a.
>
>>>  It might be worth adding to the newcomers presentation.  though 
>>>if we add enough we risk making it a 90 minute or 2 hr session.
>>>  a.
>>>>>  phenomenon where meetings consist of highly scripted 
>>>>>presentations rather than discussion time.  most people don't 
>>>>>pay attention to the presentations because the information 
>>>>>content is so low, so they use

---

From: Mirjam Kuehne <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:29:05 +0100

On a related issue: I mentioned during our edu-team dinner in Minneapolis 
that the German ISOC chapter organised a day about IETF culture (What do 
you have to take into account when attending an IETF meeting. What to 
expect in communications. etc.). This was mainly focused towards (future) 
IETF participants from German, but one could imagine to encourage similar 
activities in other regions/countries or even during IETF meetings.

The agenda, slides etc. from that day are on 
http://www.isoc.de/IETF-Tag/index.html (in German), but they are also 
planning to write a report (in German), that could of course be translated 
(even though some of the specifics might get lost in translation).

Mirjam

At 08:06 AM 3/15/2005 -0500, Margaret Wasserman wrote:

>Before you do any sort of training on how to present at the IETF, you need 
>to decide what your goals are...
>
>I have no doubt that IETF meetings were more efficient/productive when 
>they contained a small number of highly-educated, native English speakers 
>with a limited cultural range gathered around a white board. People could 
>talk without slides and argue subtle points in a working group meeting 
>without the concern that they were leaving anyone behind.  But, this just 
>isn't true of the IETF today.
>
>professional/educational backgrounds, language skills and cultures. I have 
>_repeatedly_ been told by Asian audiences (and even sometimes by fluent 
>non-native English speakers like Bert Wijnen) that I talk too fast and 
>that I should put more information on my PowerPoint slides (I used to just 
>do a few pictures, as they teach you in presentation classes) to allow 
>them to follow my presentation.  So, I do.  I am completely aware that 
>this makes the presentation slower and less interesting to native English 
>speakers, but so what?
>
>Margaret
>
>>That might be a good idea.  I wonder how we would get them to a class on 
>>Sunday?  Perhaps this is something that is appropriate for a short

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:37:19 +0100

Indeed. And my point is that as far as people have been PPT-trained,
it is for sales talks, but we have specific needs as you say.

   Brian

Margaret Wasserman wrote:
> they contained a small number of highly-educated, native English 
> group meeting without the concern that they were leaving anyone behind.  
> But, this just isn't true of the IETF today.
> 
> professional/educational backgrounds, language skills and cultures. I 
> have _repeatedly_ been told by Asian audiences (and even sometimes by 
> fluent non-native English speakers like Bert Wijnen) that I talk too 
> fast and that I should put more information on my PowerPoint slides (I 
> used to just do a few pictures, as they teach you in presentation 
> classes) to allow them to follow my presentation.  So, I do.  I am 
> completely aware that this makes the presentation slower and less 
> interesting to native English speakers, but so what?
> 
> Margaret
> 
>>>>  It might be worth adding to the newcomers presentation.  though if 
>>>> we add enough we risk making it a 90 minute or 2 hr session.
>>>>  a.
>>>>>> presentations rather than discussion time.  most people don't pay 
>>>>>> attention to the presentations because the information content is 
>>>>>> so low, so they use

---

From: Thomas Narten <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:42:59 -0500

Related point: it would probably be useful to have a semi-regular
session on the topic of "how to prepare for and host a succesful BOF".

Have we ever done anything along those lines?

Thomas

---

From: avri doria <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:42:18 -0500

Not that I know of.

This might be a good part of the class on bringing work into the IETF; 
a presentation that has been talked about in the team for the last year 
but is still in the conceptual phase and would still need to be vetted 
by the IESG etc.

a.