Subject: [edu-team] MIB class request

From: Avri Doria <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 13:16:36 +0200

Hi,

I got the following:

On 18 maj 2006, at 08.04, Romascanu, Dan ((Dan)) wrote:

> The MIB Doctors team is requesting a slot for a EDU session in  
> Montreal
> with the subject 'What MIB Documents Editors need to  
> know' (preliminary
> title). Bert Wijnen is leading the preparation of the material. Please
> let me know what needs to be done for this request to be granted.
>
> Please reply me directly, I believe that I am not on the edu-team  
> list.

(note: this request was copied to the 2 O&M ADs)

now, normally I would say: 'sorry, how about next time?'

but in this case there are two situations:

1- Elwyn is not available for teaching the XML2RFC class .  So we  
need to find a substitute teacher again and i have received a  
recommendation that i _not_ ask Bill again.  i have not asked  
Marshall yet and while I can do it if i have to, don't really want to.

2 - there was obviously discomfort with scheduling the Leader's class  
again.

So, do we want to schedule a substitution?
And if so, for which class?

a.

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---

From: Thomas Narten <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 08:25:12 -0400

> > Montreal with the subject 'What MIB Documents Editors need to
> > know' (preliminary title). Bert Wijnen is leading the preparation
> > of the material. Please let me know what needs to be done for this
> > request to be granted.

I'd like to see this happen. This is exactly the type of tutorial we
should be making happen.

Thomas

---

From: Avri Doria <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 14:52:08 +0200

Hi,

thanks for your answer and i agree it is probably in scope even when  
the scope is defined rather narrowly.  but whether it happens in  
Montreal or at the next IETF is really the question at the moment.

so, do you favor holding it Montreal and substituting it for one of  
the currently scheduled classes? and which class  would you recommend  
we substitute for?

thanks
a.

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 15:30:38 +0200

> I'd like to see this happen. This is exactly the type of tutorial we

I agree with that, although this is a bit clumsy of them to come
at quite short notice. So I think Avri should reply politely pointing
out that it's very late to ask for a slot since registration is already
open. Haven't people already started registering for classes? Won't we
have to tell them individually and ask them to re-register?

I'd also expect to see course goals and an outline before
saying yes.

    Brian

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 16:43:59 +0200

> so, do you favor holding it Montreal and substituting it for one of  the 
> currently scheduled classes?

I suspect that with registration already being open, we are simply
too late for that.

> and which class  would you recommend  we 
> substitute for?

Since there's a teacher shortage, I guess it would be xml2rfc.

    Brian

---

From: "Margaret Wasserman" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 12:11:32 -0400

This is an excellent idea, quite in-line with what we should be doing, IMO.
I also know that the MIB Doctors have done this type of training before, and
that they have a wealth of knowledge to share on this topic. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Avri Doria [mailto:[email-masked]] 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 7:17 AM
> To: EDU Team
> Subject: [edu-team] MIB class request
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I got the following:
> 
> 
> > Montreal with the subject 'What MIB Documents Editors need to know' 
> > (preliminary title). Bert Wijnen is leading the preparation of the 
> > material. Please let me know what needs to be done for this 
> request to 
> > be granted.
> >
> 1- Elwyn is not available for teaching the XML2RFC class .  
> So we need to find a substitute teacher again and i have 
> received a recommendation that i _not_ ask Bill again.  i 
> have not asked Marshall yet and while I can do it if i have 
> to, don't really want to.
> 
> 2 - there was obviously discomfort with scheduling the 
> Leader's class again.
>

---

From: Avri Doria <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 18:29:43 +0200

On 30 maj 2006, at 16.43, Brian E Carpenter wrote:

>
>> so, do you favor holding it Montreal and substituting it for one  
>> of  the currently scheduled classes?
>

why?

people are not really registering for classes, though they are  
indicating a preference.  we would have to request the secretariat to  
change the site.  i doubt anyone is coming to the IETF just because  
of a class, but maybe someone is coming on sunday just becasue they  
really want to see the leadership class.  It could happen.

Although change of class schedules happen a lot and I don't think  
there is an implied guarantee to hold a particular session.

what I believe we can't do is add another class - i.e. add another  
room.  i am also sure that we can't substitute for the Newcomers in  
either French or English, or the Editor's training as that is now a  
'guaranteed slot' for the RFC Editor.  so that leaves the other 3 as  
candidates for substitution.

a.

---

From: Avri Doria <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 18:30:34 +0200

hi,

thanks for the reply.

are you in favor of substitution if allowed?

and which class ywould you suggest we substitute?

thanks
a.

---

From: Thomas Narten <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 14:42:05 -0400

> the currently scheduled classes?

We just had a tutorial on xml2rfc, and well, personally it seems like
online documentation and/or well documented templates and working
examples would be a more efficient way to do this sort of training. So
I'd be in favor of something on mibs over xml2rfc again.

I forget the reason for the original hesitation on WG leadership
again, but I'd be OK with replacing that one as well, since we just
had a session in Dallas.

And I surely hope we could make this sort of change even at this
"late" point in time. I am pretty sure the tutorial would be
good/useful, but Brian's point about getting a more precise sense of
what it is intended to cover isn't unreasonable (just to be sure we're
all on the same page).

Thomas

---

From: "Spencer Dawkins" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 13:58:01 -0500

Dear All,

I am not aware of any WG Leadership hesitation except for my own, which was 
actually intended to free up a slot for something else (during a 
conversation where we were slot-constrained) - IIRC, I had hoped (for about 
six IETFs now) that "something else" would have been "bringing new work into 
the IETF", but I haven't heard any more about this lately.

So, please ignore any recollections of hesitation, unless you're 
recollecting something different from this (there could be good reasons to 
punt WG Leadership, but I didn't have any).

Thanks,

Spencer, who is in fact trying to figure out how to insert <pre> text in an 
Internet Draft in another window, and the best I've been able to come up 
with is using figure/artwork, which also generates figure numbers that I 
don't want - so you could probably interest ME in an XML2RFC class, given 
the choice.

p.s. Are we meeting this coming Friday? First Friday of the month, and 
all...

---

From: Radia Perlman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 12:07:35 -0700

I'm very enthusiastic about a MIB class. It's incredibly daunting to 
have to write one's first MIB. I've
talked to Bert about this before, and I'm happy to review the materials, 
or spend some time talking with
him about what I think newbies to MIBs would be intimidated about, to 
make sure it's included in the class.

I second Thomas's implicit vote that it would be nice to work on on-line 
documentation and
examples for xml2RFC.

And I also agree that it shouldn't be a big deal to modify the schedule 
as long as we're not asking for
extra rooms. People are used to the IETF agenda changing even on-site.

Radia

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 23:11:22 +0200

Avri Doria wrote:
> indicating a preference.

Ah, OK.

> we would have to request the secretariat to  
> change the site.

And announce the change to the -announce list.

>  i doubt anyone is coming to the IETF just because  of 
> a class, but maybe someone is coming on sunday just becasue they  really 
> want to see the leadership class.  It could happen.
> 
> Although change of class schedules happen a lot and I don't think  there 
> is an implied guarantee to hold a particular session.

Well, we set expectations by asking people to select classes. But I agree,
it does seem that we could change it if announced soon.

     Brian