Subject: [edu-team] EDU Team Web Site

From: Margaret Wasserman <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 10:31:15 -0500

Avri and Jim,

The EDU team web site still appears to be completely non-functional,  
including all of the educational material pointers from the regular  
IETF web site.  What is the plan to get this operational?  Is work  
underway to transfer this to an AMS-controlled web site, or did that  
stall somewhere along the line?

Margaret

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edu-team mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-team

---

From: Avri Doria <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 11:19:31 -0500

hi,

i just checked it yesterday and it was fine.   Been checking it almost  
daily.

Obviously it needs to be moved at this point.  I guess you all need to  
decide what you want to do.

a.

---

From: Avri Doria <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 11:23:18 -0500

Hi,

Ps. it was not stalled.  it was postponed since I was asking at the  
time for some effort in including this as one of the AMS ARO list  
which offers a set of functionality similar to what we have now (when  
it works).   Since this takes more time and since the Edu list was  
working at the time, the work was deferred.  In the meantime, if I  
understand correctly, Thomas has recommend changing it to a WIki,  
which I think is also a good idea.

All I have been doing is checking, as I say, most days to see if it is  
having problems and pinging James Seng, also a member of the Edu team,  
when it doesn't.

a.

---

From: Margaret Wasserman <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 12:40:03 -0500

I trust you and Jim to make a good choice about this, so please  
decide.  The important things for the EDU Team (I think) are to have  
a stable, working site and for it to be easy for members of the EDU  
Team to update materials, edit pages, etc.  A Wiki would certainly  
fit that bill.  I am not familiar with the ARO tool, so you would  
know better than I would whether it would work for us.

Either way, it seems like we should make it a priority to migrate  
this ASAP.  Folks will be trying to access it on Sunday, and I don't  
currently have any confidence that it will work.  Let's not go  
through this for another IETF after this one...

Thanks,
Margaret

---

From: "James Seng" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 01:51:42 +0800

Once the group identify the person to hand over, I will backup the
site and make a copy for the new machine.

-James Seng

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 08:18:10 +1300

Restructuring it as a wiki is rather more than a simple
handover. When you say "a copy", does that mean it will
just be a tarball of static content? If so, transferring
that as stage 1 and restructuring it as stage 2 would
seem logical.

Regards
   Brian Carpenter
   University of Auckland

---

From: Margaret Wasserman <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 18:41:46 -0500

Thanks, Jim!

Margaret

On Mar 8, 2008, at 2:14 PM, James M Galvin wrote:

> It didn't stall.  I'm sorry for not saying anything to you but we
> decided to hold off on all web site migration until after Philly.
>
> What I can do is arrange for EDU to be first though.  I'll see Glen
> on Monday and talk to him.  Perhaps he'd be willing to start on the
> EDU site sooner.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> -- On Saturday, March 08, 2008 10:31 AM -0500 Margaret Wasserman
> <[email-masked]> wrote regarding EDU Team Web Site --
>
>>
>> Avri and Jim,
>>
>> The EDU team web site still appears to be completely
>> non-functional, including all of the educational material
>> pointers from the regular IETF web site.  What is the plan to get
>> this operational?  Is work underway to transfer this to an
>> AMS-controlled web site, or did that stall somewhere along the
>> line?
>>
>> Margaret
>>
>>
>
>

---

From: James M Galvin <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 14:14:49 -0500

Jim

---

From: Thomas Narten <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:33:13 -0700

> on Monday and talk to him.  Perhaps he'd be willing to start on the 

I talked to Henrik in the hallway this week, but didn't manage to
catch Jim before I left.

Henrik suggested we use the tools wiki now and transition over to the
new system later (sometime in the next year). He's got a bunch of
stuff he wants to move off of his servers already when the time is
right. But I gather there are plenty of things going on already with
the overall transition, so it is probably better not to make this a
high priority.

If no one else wants to do this, I'll put the stuff on the wiki once
it's created. I've done this before and its not a lot of work.

Again, my goal is not to "recreate the EDU page" as it exists
today. It's simply to archive our important stuff and make available
the basic stuff we need and that people are looking for
(presentations, charters, list pointers, etc.).

Thomas

---

From: Thomas Narten <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:52:18 -0700

To be honest, I don't have strong feelings about which way to go. I
just want it to happen quickly, and I don't think anyone wants to
spend a lot of time making it happen.

> The last conversation I had with Margaret and Avri was that the 
> IETF was going to get a tarball of the site and we're going to get 
> it setup on the IETF server.

What exactly does that mean? Would your server be a unix box with a
directory that apache points to? And then we could ssh/rsync the
content? If so, that sound pretty easy to do as well. Maybe we can
just try that and see if it works. I just don't want to get sucked
into a longer debugging thing, at least not now.

Actually, how is the content maintained currently? Is it just HTML
files done by hand (yikes!), or are the web pages generated by some
tool? I.e., if we untar the directory, what tools are needed to
add/update the content going forward?

Thomas

---

From: James M Galvin <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:35:18 -0400

This is fine with me.  You folks can do whatever works for you.

All I ask is that once it's setup, I know where it is, what's 
there, who is responsible for it, and how to contact that person. 
As part of the transition I'm documenting "assets", something that 
has never existed before.  So, I'm just asking for some basic 
information.  In particular, the contact information will be 
available to the Secretariat so they know who to contact.  If 
there's a separate contact for the server versus the content please 
make that known.

Also, I do want to make sure that we get a copy of everything on 
the IETF servers.  If you're going with the tools site I expect 
this will happen by default so there's probably nothing for you to 
do.  I'll work this out Henrik later wFrom [email-masked]  Sun Mar 16 18:23:06 2008
From: Ruri Hiromi <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 16:07:01 +0900
Cc: Ruri Hiromi <[email-masked]>
Subject: [edu-team] broken file at download page
Sender: [email-masked]

Hello,

Since all through this week, I could not get any tutorial files from  
the http://edu.ietf.org/editors.
(almost of the files are just only 4K and my adobe tools says "error  
occurs, this is broken")

I use both Mac OS X and Windows Vista, both of FireFox and Safari web  
browser.
My co-worker also tried to download but in vain.

Could you please check the site?

Regards,
-------------------------------
Ruri Hiromi
[email-masked]

hen he and I plan for slaving 
the tools site.

The last conversation I had with Margaret and Avri was that the 
IETF was going to get a tarball of the site and we're going to get 
it setup on the IETF server.  I'm considering that superceded by 
this.  However, you want to go back to that just say the word and 
we can make that happen too.

Whatever works for you folks.

Thanks,

Jim

-- On Thursday, March 13, 2008 10:33 AM -0700 Thomas Narten 
<[email-masked]> wrote regarding Re: [edu-team] EDU Team Web 
Site --

> > It didn't stall.  I'm sorry for not saying anything to you but
> > we  decided to hold off on all web site migration until after
> > Philly.
>
> > What I can do is arrange for EDU to be first though.  I'll see
> > Glen  on Monday and talk to him.  Perhaps he'd be willing to
> > start on the  EDU site sooner.
>
> Henrik suggested we use the tools wiki now and transition over to
> the new system later (sometime in the next year). He's got a
> bunch of stuff he wants to move off of his servers already when
> the time is right. But I gather there are plenty of things going
> on already with the overall transition, so it is probably better
> not to make this a high priority.
>
> If no one else wants to do this, I'll put the stuff on the wiki
> once it's created. I've done this before and its not a lot of
> work.
>
> today. It's simply to archive our important stuff and make
> available the basic stuff we need and that people are looking for

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:59:59 +1300

Given the fact that all the pdf files at edu.ietf.org seem
to be broken today, I'd say we're at red alert to get this
done.

Regards
   Brian Carpenter
   University of Auckland

On 2008-03-14 07:35, James M Galvin wrote:
> do.  I'll work this out Henrik later when he and I plan for slaving 
> the tools site.
>

---

From: Avri Doria <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 00:42:05 -0400

Hi,

I think it is being worked on by Jim.  We are waiting for the tar'ed  
contents from James Seng.

In the meantime it might be good to move the DNs entry so that it  
points to an under construction page.

by the way, it looks like instead of dropping out of Edu i will keep  
working on this, unless people object of course. i talk to both  
Margaret and Mirjam and they seemed ok with the idea.

i am fine with working with a wiki if that is what the team wants, i  
like wikis.  i also think it might be worth looking into fitting  
something into AMS's ARO system.  But in this first case, i think we  
are just going to get everything on line is relatively flat and normal  
way ASAP - while the team figures out what it really wants to do and  
while the Glen at AMS, and perhaps Henrik, look at what is possible/ 
reasonable for us to do.

a.

---

From: Margaret Wasserman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:15:00 -0400

Hi Avri,

> points to an under construction page.

Good idea.

> Margaret and Mirjam and they seemed ok with the idea.

Great!

> while the Glen at AMS, and perhaps Henrik, look at what is possible/

This sounds like a good plan. Get us operational ASAP, and then work  
on a longer term plan that will make it easier for EDU team members,  
and perhaps other presenters, to update the site.

Margaret

---

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:48:35 +0100

I'm not completely clear on what's the optimal near-time solution.

I've set up a wiki at http://tools.ietf.org/group/edu .
It's trivial to set up a redirect from http://edu.tools.ietf.org/
to http://tools.ietf.org/group/edu if that should be desired.

Making whatever is available at http://tools.ietf.org/group/edu
appear also at http://edu.ietf.org/ requires an updated dns entry
in the ietf.org zone file (or a delegation), and a new apache
virtual site config file.  Doable.

Associated with the wiki there is a subversion repository.  If it
is desired that the main page be a straight html page rather than
a wiki page, I can arrange things so that anything committed to
the repository under for instance public_html/ is checked out and
placed under http://tools.ietf.org/group/edu , with the wiki at
for instance http://tools.ietf.org/group/edu/trac/wiki.

Alternatively, I can arrange for html pages committed to the
repository in some defined path is checked out somewhere under
the wiki level.

Or variations of the above...

Those are my suggestions.  If you don't like them...
well, I have others.  (Paraphrasing Groucho Marx :)

	Henrik

---

From: James M Galvin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:34:59 -0400

-- On Monday, March 17, 2008 12:42 AM -0400 Avri Doria 
<[email-masked]> wrote regarding Re: [edu-team] EDU Team Web Site --

> I think it is being worked on by Jim.  We are waiting for the
> tar'ed contents from James Seng.

No, the action is to the EDU team, not me.

My problem here is I don't know who speaks for the group, i.e., 
when a decision has been made.

I had discussions with Margaret and Avri at the IETF, but they were 
superceded (at least in my opinion) by Thomas Narten's email 
suggesting moving to a Wiki.  And now we have Henrik's note also 
suggesting the Wiki.

If you want this site just loaded up, then somebody needs to make a 
tarball (or equivalent) of the site accessible and I'll get it done.

Otherwise, if you're going for a Wiki at Henrik's site that's fine 
too.  It just means that somebody needs to do the migration and 
then let me know so I can make the appropriate DNS change.

I'm not sure who speaks for the group but it would help me a lot at 
this point if there was some consensus visible on this list rather 
than the 1-1 conversations I've had.

Thanks,

Jim

---

From: Avri Doria <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:32:59 -0400

Hi,

I don't know who speaks for the team.

I have at this point forwarded the pointers of the tar ball to you.

a.

On 18 Mar 2008, at 11:34, James M Galvin wrote:

> My problem here is I don't know who speaks for the group, i.e., when  
> a decision has been made.
>
> too.  It just means that somebody needs to do the migration and then  
> let me know so I can make the appropriate DNS change.
>

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:50:13 +1300

Well, Margaret/Mirjam should call consensus on this.

fwiw, my opinion is that we should aim towards a wiki-based
end product for convenience. But urgently, can we get the
existing tarball up as static content on a server that doesn't
lose its brain on a weekly basis? It's a practical detail
whether that is hosted at AMSL or tools.ietf. Whatever Jim and
Henrik agree on would be fine by me.

   Brian

---

From: Avri Doria <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:26:07 -0400

makes sense to me.

a.

---

From: Ray Pelletier <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:25:40 -0400

All;

 From my perspective I would like  the subdomain hosted at ietf.org as 
soon as AMS can provide the services needed to support EDU.

My 2 cents.

Ray

---

From: James M Galvin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:12:49 -0400

-- On Tuesday, March 18, 2008 2:32 PM -0400 Avri Doria 
<[email-masked]> wrote regarding Re: [edu-team] EDU Team Web Site --

> I have at this point forwarded the pointers of the tar ball to

And Glen now has the tarballs.  We'll make the priority for the 
moment getting a stable site.  You should, in the meantime, decide 
how you want to manage the site going forward.  In addition, even 
as this is moved to the AMS servers there is the issue of what 
access you need to make updates/changes to the site.

So, there are two questions to the team.

1. What do you need to maintain what you have at AMS while it is 
there?

2. What do you want to do going forward?

Let me know,

Jim