Subject: comments on draft-ietf-fax-eifax-04.txt (resend)

From: MAEDA toru <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:25:48 +0900

I have some comments on draft-ietf-fax-eifax-04.txt.

(1)Section 2.1
The Note should be deleted because the sender must request a DSN 
as written in section 2.1.1.

"Note that a DSN or delivery failure message may be sent to the
   envelope-from address even if the sender doesn't request a DSN."

(2)Missing section 2.2.2
The section 2.2.3 should be 2.2.2.

(3)Section 5.2
I could not found the status code of 5.6 --???????-- in RFC1893.
Is this new status code?

(4)Reference
Reference should have RFC1893.

Toru MAEDA
CANON Inc.
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From: Dan Wing <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 9:04:18 -0700

>   envelope-from address even if the sender doesn't request a DSN."

But a delivery failure (bounce) message can (in fact, must) always
be generated without the sender requesting any form of DSN.

For example, sending a message to [email-masked] will cause a 
delivery failure message (in the form of a DSN) to be generated 
because the mailbox [email-masked] doesn't exist.

Would more specific wording for the Note, such as this be alright:

  Note that a delivery failure message (which may be in the format
  of a DSN) may be sent to the envelope-from address even if the
  sender did not request a DSN.

What I am trying to clearly describe is the case where a message, once 
transmitted, may, at any point along the way, encounter a failure 
which will cause a 'bounce' to come back, and the envelope-from 
address MUST do something with that bounce (print it, forward it to a 
human, etc.).

>The section 2.2.3 should be 2.2.2.

Thanks.  Corrected.

>I could not found the status code of 5.6 --???????-- in RFC1893.

Yes.  At the fax WG meeting in Chicago, Ned Freed suggested a new
status code be defined for this case.  We have not coordinated
with the author of RFC1893 or Ned on the best method to add another
status code.

>Reference should have RFC1893.

Thanks.  Corrected.

-Dan Wing

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From: Dan Wing <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:16:31 -0700

>"the sender MUST request a DSN"
>
>There is no sender which does not request a DSN.

If a message is relayed through a mailer that doesn't support DSN, the
message will no longer contain DSN information and will appear as if
the message was submitted without any DSN requests.

>The part of the statement "even if the sender did not request a DSN" is no
>meaning.
>
>Are the senders in these statements identical?

I believe so.

The specific text of -eifax- is (section 2.1.1): 

   [...]
   To request delivery confirmation, the sender MUST request
   Delivery Status Notification by including the the esmtp-value SUCCESS
   with the esmtp-keyword NOTIFY using the method described in section
   5.1 of [RFC1891].

Note the conditional clause in the above sentence:  "To request
delivery confirmation". 

If the sender (human) does not desire delivery confirmation, the
sender (computer) would not request a Delivery Status Notification (by
including the esmtp-value SUCCESS with the ....).  This is analogous 
to fax machines and email clients which permit the user to select
if a 'delivery confirmation report' should be printed (for fax) or
a 'delivery confirmation' should be requested (for email).

In -eifax-03 I used the phrase "If the sender wishes to receive a
delivery confirmation ... an EIFax sender MUST request a DSN ..."
which has the same meaning as the text in -04.

Would this revised wording of the Note be more appropriate (for
everyone else's reference, this is in section 2.1 of -eifax-04):

  Note that a delivery failure message (in a non-standard format
  or in the format described by [RFC1894]) may be sent to the
  envelope-from address specified by the sender.  Thus, the
  envelope-from address MUST be able to properly handle such delivery 
  failure messages.

-Dan Wing