Subject: RE: IPP> IPP 2 IFAX Integration Time and Date Stamp

From: Harry Lewis <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:41:35 -0400

I'm probably extremely naive when it comes to law... so I don't know if there
are "laws" or not...

>I'm not aware of any law establishing the legality of fax documents --
>I believe it is only case law, no?  If so, a legal challenge would
>be needed to establish a similar precedent.

but there are regulations such as the State of California "Rules of Court" (see
rule 2003 item 6) adopted March 1992.
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/rules/1998/titlefive/titlefive.pdf which refers to
a "transmission record" printed by the SENDING device and containing fax number
of receiving machine, number of pages sent and transmission time and date.

Also, from FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION PUBLIC NOTICE (31291 / DA 92-1716)
January 11, 1993
http://www.faximum.com/faqs/fax.questions#Q.11

FCC rules require that each transmission to a telephone facsimile machine must
clearly contain, in a margin at the top or bottom of each transmitted
page or on the first page of the transmission, (1) the date and time the
transmission is sent (2) the identity of the sender and (3) the telephone
number of the sender or of the sending machine. All telephone facsimile
machines manufactured on or after December 20, 1992 must have the capacity
to clearly mark such identifying information on the first page or on each page
of the transmission.

While not meant to represent an exhaustive study, these two (laws, regulations,
rules...? whatever)... clearly place requirement for "timestamping" on the
'generator", not the receiver. Note, there are margin requirements placed on
the end device, however.

I agree with trying to follow today's fax paradigm wherever appropriate.

Harry Lewis - IBM Printing Systems

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From: Dan Wing <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:13:59 -0700

>I agree with trying to follow today's fax paradigm wherever appropriate.

Yes, I'm aware there are laws in the US and other countries requiring
identifying the terminal, time, and pages.  

But this information can be admissable as "proof" of transmission (or
the receipt confirmation is "proof" that a NNN page document was sent
at a certain time) isn't in law, per se.  I thought that's what the
original question was about ("Would the legal requirements of a
real-time clock for current fax machines automatically apply to an
IPP/IFAX device?") 

Of course, outside the US there aren't such regulations, or, if they
exist, they are different.  The FCC regulation is meant to provide 
identification of the sender to track the source of fax spam -- this 
(unlike email spam) was a problem for our congress-critters so they 
decided it was important enough to outlaw the spam and require 
manufacturers provide identification strings.  At least, that's my
understanding with my year of fax background.

-Dan Wing

---

From: "Bennett, Joel H" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 17:34:26 -0400

===== SNIP ======
> > The second question concerns the legal issues... "Would the legal
> > requirements of a real-time clock for current fax machines automatically
> > apply to an IPP/IFAX device?"  If this answer is yes, there would exist
a
> > very strong incentive for a vendor not to build an IPP/IFAX device that
> > does not have a real-time clock.
> >
> > Please let me know if there remains any issues regarding a time stamp.
> 
> It would not "automatically" apply since the legality of such a
transaction
> over a purely IP network has not been tested in court,  however if IPP
were
> to gateway [redirect in IPP terms] with RFC 2305 and the IPP transaction
> transverses the PSTN at any point ...then the legal requirements would
> apply.  

Here is the US law code:
http://law2.house.gov
Notice item (2|A) under definitions, I believe this law at least could
definitely be applied to any IPP implementation, unless of course you don't
plan on allowing anyone outside of your local LAN to access it.  Otherwise,
as I understand it, anyone dialing in to their ISP, and printing to your IPP
printer will cause it to be covered by this law.

-CITE-
    47 USC Sec. 227                                              01/06/97

-EXPCITE-
    TITLE 47 - TELEGRAPHS, TELEPHONES, AND RADIOTELEGRAPHS
    CHAPTER 5 - WIRE OR RADIO COMMUNICATION
    SUBCHAPTER II - COMMON CARRIERS
    Part I - Common Carrier Regulation

-HEAD-
    Sec. 227. Restrictions on use of telephone equipment

-STATUTE-
    (a) Definitions
      As used in this section -
        (1) The term ''automatic telephone dialing system'' means equipment
which
       has the capacity -
          (A) to store or produce telephone numbers to be called, using a
random or
       sequential number generator; and
          (B) to dial such numbers.
*       (2) The term "telephone facsimile machine" means equipment which has
the capacity . . .
*         (A) to transcribe text or images, or both, from paper into an
electronic signal 
*        and to transmit that signal over a regular telephone line, or 
*         (B) to transcribe text or images (or both) from an electronic
signal received over
*        a regular telephone line onto paper.

> All fax transactions and indeed all SMTP transactions are time/date
> stamped, therefore in my judgement IPP devices should have real-time
clocks.
> 
> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Richard Shockey
> Shockey Consulting LLC                  
> 8045 Big Bend Blvd. Suite 110    
> St. Louis, MO 63119
> Voice 314.918.9020
> Fax   314.918.9015
> INTERNET Mail & IFAX : [email-masked]  
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

------------------------------------------------------
As always, in HIS hands, 
          Joel H. Bennett

mail: [email-masked]
------------------------------------------------------
QOTD:
  Shin: (n) A device for finding furniture in the dark.

---

From: Harry Lewis <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:53:43 -0400

I agree...

>From the way I read this, there is an alternative to having a real-time
>clock in each fax machine. The rule is that the required time stamp is the
>date and time the transmission is *sent* (not received) so this implies the
>sender could pass a time stamp with the job rather than the printer
>generating one.

It appears the need for a clock in every fax machine is due to the scan nature,
not the print nature, of the machine. I don't see why IPP would change this
from
a device perspective.

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 10:39:06 -0400

Richard Shockley said:

>All fax transactions and indeed all SMTP transactions are
>time/date stamped, therefore in my judgement IPP devices
>should have real-time clocks.

Not likely for embedded printer implementations unless network time is
available!

**********************************************
* Don Wright                 [email-masked] *
* Product Manager, Strategic Alliances       *
* Lexmark International                      *
* 740 New Circle Rd                          *
* Lexington, Ky 40550                        *
* 606-232-4808 (phone) 606-232-6740 (fax)    *
**********************************************

---

From: Graham Klyne <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 16:16:15 +0100

At 16:13 06/10/98 -0700, Dan Wing wrote:

[...]
>real-time clock for current fax machines automatically apply to an

Unless I'm missing something, I thought this discussion was _not_ about
legal admissibility, but simply the *requirement* to apply a timestamp to a
message.  And if I understand correctly, this requirement derives primarily
from a US legal requirement for this to be provided.

#g

------------
Graham Klyne
([email-masked])

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From: Dan Wing <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 8:47:05 -0700

>from a US legal requirement for this to be provided.

Yes, you're right - I was inferring too much from the original 
question.

-Dan Wing