Subject: [gaia] Fwd: origins of project loon?

From: Paola Di Maio <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 15:21:07 +0530

During an open/flash discussion at WIreless Summit
2012, Barcelona

some of us were talking about rural internet challenges,

 I shared a proposal for sending antennas using a ballon

I sketched the baloon on the board , saw some people taking photos of the
board with the sketches and other ideas

 I waited for follow ups from the community but never heard from anyone

Next thing I heard tho, was google loon project, but no reference
to the discussions we had nor my original design

I am sure Google is not in the business of stealing ideas :-)

can someone let me know when was project loon started?
(if there is any documentation to show that it was started before 2012,
then I ll lay my claim to rest :-)

thanks!!

PDM

---

From: "Jose Saldana" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 09:58:35 -0000

This is what Wikipedia says:

History[
<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Project_Loon&action=edit&section=
1> edit]

In 2008, Google had considered contracting with or acquiring Space Data
Corp., a company that sends balloons carrying small base stations about 20
miles (32 km) up in the air for providing connectivity to truckers and oil
companies in the southern United States, but didn't do so.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Loon#cite_note-7> [7]

Unofficial development on the project began in 2011 under incubation in
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_X> Google X with a series of trial runs
in  <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California> California's
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_(California)> Central Valley.
The project was officially announced as a Google project on 14 June 2013.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Loon#cite_note-wired_2013-06-1> [1]

On 16 June 2013, Google began a
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_experiment> pilot experiment in
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand> New Zealand where about 30
balloons were launched in coordination with the
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Aviation_Authority_of_New_Zealand> Civil
Aviation Authority from the
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Tekapo_(town)> Tekapo area in the
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Island> South Island. About 50 local
users in and around  <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christchurch>
Christchurch and the  <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canterbury_Region>
Canterbury Region tested connections to the aerial network using special
antennas.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Loon#cite_note-wired_2013-06-1> [1]
After this initial trial, Google plans on sending up 300 balloons around the
world at the  <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40th_parallel_south> 40th
parallel souththat would provide coverage to New Zealand, Australia, Chile,
and Argentina. Google hopes to eventually have thousands of balloons flying
in the stratosphere.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Loon#cite_note-wired_2013-06-1> [1]
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Loon#cite_note-AFP_2013-06-2> [2]

Jose

De: gaia [mailto:[email-masked]] En nombre de Paola Di Maio
Enviado el: martes, 04 de marzo de 2014 9:51
Para: [email-masked]
Asunto: [gaia] Fwd: origins of project loon?

2012, Barcelona

(if there is any documentation to show that it was started before 2012, then
I ll lay my claim to rest :-)

thanks!!

PDM

---

From: Enrico Calandro <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 12:08:01 +0200

Following is the link to the Google loon project website:
http://www.google.com/loon/
Enrico

On 4 Mar 2014, at 11:58, Jose Saldana <[email-masked]> wrote:

History[edit]
In 2008, Google had considered contracting with or acquiring Space Data Corp., a company that sends balloons carrying small base stations about 20 miles (32 km) up in the air for providing connectivity to truckers and oil companies in the southern United States, but didn't do so.[7]

Unofficial development on the project began in 2011 under incubation in Google X with a series of trial runs in California's Central Valley. The project was officially announced as a Google project on 14 June 2013.[1]

On 16 June 2013, Google began a pilot experiment in New Zealand where about 30 balloons were launched in coordination with the Civil Aviation Authority from the Tekapo area in the South Island. About 50 local users in and around Christchurch and the Canterbury Region tested connections to the aerial network using special antennas.[1] After this initial trial, Google plans on sending up 300 balloons around the world at the 40th parallel souththat would provide coverage to New Zealand, Australia, Chile, and Argentina. Google hopes to eventually have thousands of balloons flying in the stratosphere.[1][2]

Jose

 

I sketched the baloon on the board , saw some people taking photos of the board with the sketches and other ideas

 
 
can someone let me know when was project loon started?
(if there is any documentation to show that it was started before 2012, then I ll lay my claim to rest :-)
 
thanks!!
 
PDM

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
[email-masked]
https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

---

From: Paola Di Maio <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 16:06:27 +0530

Thanks a lot Enrico, yes on the page it says
http://www.google.com/loon/where/  project was launched in 2013, but
jose's links to wikipedia points to older origins

Unfortunately, wikipedia is not always fully 'reliable'in the sense that
many pages are
deleted abitrarily.

I did not write a paper, because at the time I was only exploring how to
overcome the
limitations of the antenna size, and put forward the suggestion that
 making a baloon up to  extend the reach of the antenna up to say 50 meter
high and pulling the balloon down at night or when not needed, could work
 (would it break any laws? would it save on antenna cost? etc) it did sound
a bit like a crazy idea and we left it at that

we were not thinking stratosphere yet :-)  obviously glad to see this done
by Google on happen on a bigger scale, will try to post some links to
 wikipedia  hoping the do nto get wiped out from the history of ariel access

we remain available to test baloon delivered wifi access in high places
around the himalayan regions  :-)

best

PDM

On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 3:38 PM, Enrico Calandro <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> History[edit<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Project_Loon&action=edit&section=1>
> ]
>
> companies in the southern United States, but didn't do so.[7]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Loon#cite_note-7>
>
> Unofficial development on the project began in 2011 under incubation in Google
> X <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_X> with a series of trial runs in
> California <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California>'s Central Valley<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_(California)>.
> [1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Loon#cite_note-wired_2013-06-1>
>
> On 16 June 2013, Google began a pilot experiment<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_experiment>
>  in New Zealand <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand> where about 30
> balloons were launched in coordination with the Civil Aviation Authority<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Aviation_Authority_of_New_Zealand>
>  from the Tekapo area <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Tekapo_(town)> in
> the South Island <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Island>. About 50
> local users in and around Christchurch<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christchurch>
>  and the Canterbury Region<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canterbury_Region>
>  tested connections to the aerial network using special antennas.[1]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Loon#cite_note-wired_2013-06-1>
>  After this initial trial, Google plans on sending up 300 balloons around
> the world at the 40th parallel south<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40th_parallel_south>that
> would provide coverage to New Zealand, Australia, Chile, and Argentina.
> Google hopes to eventually have thousands of balloons flying in the
> stratosphere.[1]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Loon#cite_note-wired_2013-06-1>
> [2] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Loon#cite_note-AFP_2013-06-2>
>
>
>
> Jose
>
>
>
>
>
> *De:* gaia [mailto:[email-masked] <[email-masked]>] *En
> nombre de *Paola Di Maio
> *Enviado el:* martes, 04 de marzo de 2014 9:51
> *Para:* [email-masked]
> *Asunto:* [gaia] Fwd: origins of project loon?
>
>
>
>
>

---

From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 10:44:47 +0000

One nice thing to do would be to document what are the challenges
faced in the himalayan regions, what has worked and what not as an
informational RFC and then probably worthwhile to bring this to the
GAIA and exploring potential solutions to solve

I am happy to be of help..

Arjuna

On 4 March 2014 10:36, Paola Di Maio <[email-masked]> wrote:
> limitations of the antenna size, and put forward the suggestion that  making
> a baloon up to  extend the reach of the antenna up to say 50 meter high and
> pulling the balloon down at night or when not needed, could work  (would it
> break any laws? would it save on antenna cost? etc) it did sound a bit like
> a crazy idea and we left it at that
>
> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 3:38 PM, Enrico Calandro
> <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>
>> companies in the southern United States, but didn't do so.[7]
>>
>> Google X with a series of trial runs in California's Central Valley. The
>> project was officially announced as a Google project on 14 June 2013.[1]
>>
>> On 16 June 2013, Google began a pilot experiment in New Zealand where
>> about 30 balloons were launched in coordination with the Civil Aviation
>> Authority from the Tekapo area in the South Island. About 50 local users in
>> and around Christchurch and the Canterbury Region tested connections to the
>> aerial network using special antennas.[1] After this initial trial, Google
>> plans on sending up 300 balloons around the world at the 40th parallel
>> souththat would provide coverage to New Zealand, Australia, Chile, and
>> Argentina. Google hopes to eventually have thousands of balloons flying in
>> the stratosphere.[1][2]
>>
>>
>>
>> Jose
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

-- 
Arjuna Sathiaseelan | http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/

---

From: Jim Forster <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2014 11:05:21 +0000

Arjuna,

> GAIA and exploring potential solutions to solve

Besides AirJaldi operating in the Himalayan foothills around Dharamsala in Himachal Pradesh, and Kumaon, and Garwal districts of  Uttrakhand in India, I point out the great work of Mahabir Pun and others in Nepal.  Nepal WIreless uses a similar approach as AirJaldi -- solar powered relays with long distance WiFi and directional antennas.  See http://www.nepalwireless.net/network.php for a nice picture of their network above Pokhara as of a little while ago.

  -- Jim

---

From: "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 11:20:43 -0000

Interesting stuff.
Superficial scan of the site doesn't tell me how the n/w is constructed (more
info about its impact etc. which is fine).
Is this running as an ad hoc network using something like OLSR?

Adrian

> -----Original Message-----
> From: gaia [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Jim Forster
> Sent: 04 March 2014 11:05
> To: Arjuna Sathiaseelan
> Cc: gaia
> Subject: Re: [gaia] Networking in the Himalayas
> 
> Arjuna,
> 
> Besides AirJaldi operating in the Himalayan foothills around Dharamsala in
> Himachal Pradesh, and Kumaon, and Garwal districts of  Uttrakhand in India, I
> point out the great work of Mahabir Pun and others in Nepal.  Nepal WIreless
> uses a similar approach as AirJaldi -- solar powered relays with long distance
WiFi
> and directional antennas.  See http://www.nepalwireless.net/network.php for a
> nice picture of their network above Pokhara as of a little while ago.
> 
>   -- Jim
>

---

From: Elwyn Davies <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2014 11:49:11 +0000

ExtremeCom 2010 (http://www.extremecom.org/210)  took place in the 
Himalayas, and although I wasn't there I believe there was some 
discussion/input on the challenges of networking there.  airJaldi 
(http://www.extremecom.org/airJaldi) who sponsored the event was 
building a network in the vicinity of Dharamsala in the foothills on the 
southern fringes.

It would be interesting to see how these projects interact, if at all.

Regards,
Elwyn Davies

---

From: "L. Aaron Kaplan" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 13:16:01 +0000

Paolo,

Aaron Kaplan here (co-founder Funkfeuer.at [1]). 
I can confirm that we too discussed balloons with Wi-Fi as early as 2006/2007 in Vienna at Funkfeuer.at.
So, that is a rather obvious idea actually. However, it comes with technical difficulties.

I have more hopes for solar based drones which can circle around an area indefinitely.
Alas, these seem to be still in the making.

> I sketched the baloon on the board , saw some people taking photos of the board with the sketches and other ideas
(...)

> (if there is any documentation to show that it was started before 2012, then I ll lay my claim to rest :-)

[1] yet one other hobby project of mine which took way too much time.

---

From: "L. Aaron Kaplan" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 13:18:43 +0000

On Mar 4, 2014, at 11:49 AM, Elwyn Davies <[email-masked]> wrote:

> ExtremeCom 2010 (http://www.extremecom.org/210)  took place in the Himalayas, and although I wasn't there I believe there was some discussion/input on the challenges of networking there.  airJaldi (http://www.extremecom.org/airJaldi) who sponsored the event was building a network in the vicinity of Dharamsala in the foothills on the southern fringes.
> 

Many of the community networks meet regularly at the global wireless summit:

http://wirelesssummit.org/

Another place to meet the european wireless community networks is the "battlemesh" event (which will take place in Leipzig in Mai):
http://battlemesh.org/

Usually these projects meet at some of these events and magic happens afterwards ;-)

Aaron.
(with the Funkfeuer.at hat on)

---

From: "L. Aaron Kaplan" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 13:19:41 +0000

> I am happy to be of help..

Same here...

---

From: "Jose Saldana" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 16:42:46 -0000

Hi, regarding the balloons, my question is: how are they distributed
throughout the World? They talk about http://www.google.com/loon/how/)
"create a ring of balloons that fly around the globe on the stratospheric
winds". But a primary question is: will the balloons remain over the desired
zone? How can this be possible? Perhaps the balloons will end together in a
zone.

A drone or a satellite can go where you decide, but a balloon goes with the
wind...

Paola, was your balloon free? Was it attached to the ground?

Any idea of how is Goolge going to put the balloons in the desired place?

Jose

> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: gaia [mailto:[email-masked]] En nombre de L. Aaron Kaplan
> Enviado el: martes, 04 de marzo de 2014 13:16
> Para: [email-masked]
> CC: [email-masked]
> Asunto: Re: [gaia] origins of project loon?
> 
> Paolo,
> 
> I can confirm that we too discussed balloons with Wi-Fi as early as
2006/2007
> in Vienna at Funkfeuer.at.
> So, that is a rather obvious idea actually. However, it comes with
technical
> difficulties.
> > During an open/flash discussion at WIreless Summit 2012, Barcelona
> >
> > I sketched the baloon on the board , saw some people taking photos of
> > the board with the sketches and other ideas
> >
> (...)
> 
> >

---

From: Paola Di Maio <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 22:26:30 +0530

Arjuna, Aaron, and all
thanks for replies -
starting this as part of an all around pilot and will document the work

started gathering basic knowhow (and know what) with pings to mailing
lists, and  getting ADSL installed in a couple of places.

 will try to find the best solution to spread access out to the community,
and build in a sustainable economic model so that we do not need to rely on
external funding. the thing is many people coming forward are trying to
sell equipment of their choice/preferene or have other commercial interest
(nothing wrong with that, just that I need to consider making optimal
choices taking into account the local economy etc).

I have of course emailed Jim (glad to read him on this list)for advice, and
will  be happy to consider whatever equipment he may recommend, I will then
make a table of cost/benefits analysis for whatever options come up

regarding the baloons, (Jose j, I was writing this as you posted your
questions)

>>>JOSE asked

But a primary question is: will the balloons remain over the desired
zone? How can this be possible? Perhaps the balloons will end together in a
zone.

this can be done by equipping the baloon with standard
satellite/positioning technology, and a mechanism to move , kind of wings
or a rudder etc  (I dont have a money to file a crazy patent, perhaps I
should before some smartie says they invented it :-)

it was just a concept. but looks like it may need developing :-)

 attached to the ground, lifted by helium,  kept in place by a semi-rigid
tube

or secured to  high points in the environment, such as mountain ridges,
buildings, tall trees,

the nice  idea was that it should be retractable after use

if someone want to work on something, let me know
 on good days I have creative powers

PDM

---

From: Jim Forster <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2014 17:08:28 +0000

Paolo,

> I have of course emailed Jim (glad to read him on this list)for advice, and will  be happy to consider whatever equipment he may recommend, I will then make a table of cost/benefits analysis for whatever options come up 

AirJaldi has had some good meeting with IIT Mandi -- our senior members have given seminars there, IIT Mandi people have come to the Dharamsala office, etc.

I suggest you plan a visit to Dharmsala -- it's not far from Mandi.  You can then see how AirJaldi does it.  Hopefully you'll then be able to replicate it around Mandi.  We've got service in Palampur and Bir which are not far from Mandi.  With luck and maybe a relay, you could extend from there.  I'll do the intro to the team there.

Of course, if you find a better/cheaper methodology, please let everyone know!  We'll jump on it.

  -- Jim

---

From: Leandro Navarro <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 18:18:04 +0100

Hi, you’ll find in India the Digital Empowerment Foundation (http://defindia.org/) and his very interesting work on Wireless for Communities http://wforc.in/
This report is inspiring: http://defindia.net/files/2013/12/W4C_Casestudy_Booklet.pdf

O. Manzar is a contact person there. I’ve bbc’d in case he’s interested to joint the discussion.

Leandro.

--
Leandro Navarro
http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro	 http://dsg.ac.upc.edu

---

From: Jim Forster <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2014 17:28:29 +0000

Leandro,

Yes, Osama and AirJaldi have collaborated some, and I hope we do more so in the future.  I've bcc'd Osama, as well as Michael Ginguld, our Director of Strategy and Operation, and Arti Sinha, Director of Development.

I would say AirJaldi and DEF share the same goals -- connecting more people, although we have slightly different approaches.

Hello Osama!

  -- Jim

---

From: Paola Di Maio <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 23:04:09 +0530

Thanks a lot JIm

good to hear you are working with IIT Mandi too

here academics tend to keep busy doing routine work, do not seem to have
much of a culture of documenting/sharing, nor entrepreneurial spirit-
we also have consistent logistical dramas, such as the landslides that keep
blocking the road to campus etc

(maybe because I am a foreigner and a woman?   women still have mostly a
 decorative purpose here)

so I have set up am independent research programme to make sure this
happens within my lifetime, and I will of course be glad to see IIT Mandi
come on board too :-)

will carry out a systemic analysis of the situation and will share our
considerations

@Leandro  contact noted, thanks!!  will follow up accordingly and will
report back-
thank you

PDM

On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 10:38 PM, Jim Forster <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Paolo,
>
> I have of course emailed Jim (glad to read him on this list)for advice,
> and will  be happy to consider whatever equipment he may recommend, I will
> then make a table of cost/benefits analysis for whatever options come up
>
>
> AirJaldi has had some good meeting with IIT Mandi -- our senior members
> have given seminars there, IIT Mandi people have come to the Dharamsala
> office, etc.
>
> I suggest you plan a visit to Dharmsala -- it's not far from Mandi.  You
> can then see how AirJaldi does it.  Hopefully you'll then be able to
> replicate it around Mandi.  We've got service in Palampur and Bir which are
> not far from Mandi.  With luck and maybe a relay, you could extend from
> there.  I'll do the intro to the team there.
>

---

From: "Jose Saldana" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 17:35:06 -0000

Hi, Paola. Have you considered this?
http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/grants-awards/community-grants

BR,

Jose

De: gaia [mailto:[email-masked]] En nombre de Paola Di Maio
Enviado el: martes, 04 de marzo de 2014 16:57
Para: L. Aaron Kaplan
CC: gaia; Paola Di Maio; Enrico Calandro; Arjuna Sathiaseelan; Jose Saldana
Asunto: Re: [gaia] origins of project loon?

Arjuna, Aaron, and all

thanks for replies -

started gathering basic knowhow (and know what) with pings to mailing lists,
and  getting ADSL installed in a couple of places.

 will try to find the best solution to spread access out to the community,
and build in a sustainable economic model so that we do not need to rely on
external funding. the thing is many people coming forward are trying to sell
equipment of their choice/preferene or have other commercial interest
(nothing wrong with that, just that I need to consider making optimal
choices taking into account the local economy etc). 

zone.

this can be done by equipping the baloon with standard satellite/positioning
technology, and a mechanism to move , kind of wings or a rudder etc  (I dont
have a money to file a crazy patent, perhaps I should before some smartie
says they invented it :-)

 

PDM

Same here...

---

From: Paola Di Maio <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 23:26:33 +0530

Osama
thanks for quick reply

I am in Mandi, and i it all goes according to plan, I ll have to ADSL lines
up in Rewalsar to do project work, here some example
https://sites.google.com/site/ictsustainability/

important for us is the long term viability/ sustainability aspect of the
projects
and making good economic and socio-technical decisions

I am currently investigating the best way to share access (which I hope to
get soon) via community wifi what are my options for equipment?  what do I
need to know/decide?

I wil be in Bir towards the end of this month, around 20th, and I should be
able to come to Dharamsala after that, if someone is around to show me stuff

thanks a lot

PDM

On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 10:58 PM, Jim Forster <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Leandro,
>
> Yes, Osama and AirJaldi have collaborated some, and I hope we do more so
> in the future.  I've bcc'd Osama, as well as Michael Ginguld, our Director
> of Strategy and Operation, and Arti Sinha, Director of Development.
>
> I would say AirJaldi and DEF share the same goals -- connecting more
> people, although we have slightly different approaches.
>
> Hello Osama!
>
>   -- Jim
>
> Hi, you'll find in India the Digital Empowerment Foundation (
> http://defindia.org/) and his very interesting work on Wireless for
> Communities http://wforc.in/
> This report is inspiring:
> http://defindia.net/files/2013/12/W4C_Casestudy_Booklet.pdf
>
> O. Manzar is a contact person there. I've bbc'd in case he's interested to
> joint the discussion.
>
> Leandro.
>
>
>

---

From: osama manzar <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 23:06:31 +0530

Sorry to reply being BCCed :)

Hello all

Hope all well! How can help?

On Tuesday, March 4, 2014, Jim Forster <[email-masked]> wrote:

> On Mar 4, 2014, at 5:18 PM, Leandro Navarro <[email-masked]<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[email-masked]');>>
> wrote:
>

---

From: "Eric A. BREWER" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 10:45:32 -0800

The Google balloons actually do move around with some control... More than
one would think just by moving them up and down to get different wind
directions.

So you need a continuous stream of balloons passing overhead to provide
coverage, which means a hundreds of balloons at the same latitude circling
the earth to cover all of that latitude all the time (oceans included).

Also, the first real balloon idea for Internet access that I know of was
from Richard Newton in around 2002.  We had some slides on it in 2003 for
early Tier work and even a student looking into it, but then dropped it in
favor of a related project on beam steering (which indirectly became Tarana
Wireless).

-Eric

(also VP at Google familiar with the Loon project -- nothing above is
confidential)

---

From: "L. Aaron Kaplan" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 19:15:35 +0000

On Mar 4, 2014, at 6:45 PM, Eric A. BREWER <[email-masked]> wrote:

> The Google balloons actually do move around with some control... More than one would think just by moving them up and down to get different wind directions.
> 

But it's Helium, right?

---

From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 19:15:43 +0000

I think all of these events today are absolutely fantastic news for
GAIA - this is what is expected. We want more participation from
folks: coming out with the challenges and those who can address them -
form collaborations - solve the problems and then document them and
use GAIA as a platform to disseminate them! This is real impact!
Excellent. Remember documentation is key and its mandatory for us to
disseminate the findings.

Please do keep GAIA in the loop so that we can track how things progress.

On 4 March 2014 17:56, Paola Di Maio <[email-masked]> wrote:
>> Hi, you'll find in India the Digital Empowerment Foundation
>> (http://defindia.org/) and his very interesting work on Wireless for