Subject: [gaia] Lantern the free internet device

From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 21:12:21 +0000

Bruce Balkie alerted me on this - a kick starter type project!

ttps://
www.indiegogo.com/projects/lantern-one-device-free-data-from-space-forever

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From: Rohan Mahy <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 22:01:14 -0800

This is fantastic, except that the coverage area is exactly backwards for
their target user base. They are starting with coverage in North America
and Western Europe first.
-rohan

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Arjuna Sathiaseelan <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> _______________________________________________
> gaia mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia
>
>

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From: Paola Di Maio <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:57:23 +0530

Rohan
thats so true- kind of limits the scope and benefits of the project in some
way

two options
a) contact the lantern folks, asking for a more even geographical spread
from the start (and provide a collaboration option for the same)
b)start a parallel op either in collaboration with them, or independently

I take the opportunity to report that (following an earlier exchange on
this list) eventually  meet AirJaldi team in Dharamshala India recently
(and had a great walk around with Jim Forster) with a view to get rural
wireless broadband in a portion of the Himalayas that they cover :-)  I am
working to see more  'social enterprise' economic/business models for ISPs,
such as users/customers should be able to buy preferential shares in the
business etc.

PDM

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From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 07:27:42 +0000

Hello Rohan

I presume its because thats where they can start trialling, easier to
bootstrap from the  funding perspective?

Eventually they will have plans to attract more funding/strategic
partnerships to extend coverage through the initial US, europe
demonstrations..

Regards

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From: Mike <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:18:02 +0100

There's a service like Lantern, but already fully operational -
Yazmi.com - it re-purposed Noah Samara's old Worldspace satellite
network and uses a

tablet with built in satellite access.

Mike

On 13-11-2014 08:27, Arjuna
Sathiaseelan wrote:

Hello Rohan

I presume its because thats where they can start
trialling, easier to bootstrap from the  funding perspective?

Eventually they will have plans to attract more
funding/strategic partnerships to extend coverage through the
initial US, europe demonstrations..

Regards

On 13 Nov 2014 06:01, "Rohan Mahy" <[email-masked]>
wrote:

This is fantastic, except that the coverage area is
exactly backwards for their target user base. They are
starting with coverage in North America and Western Europe
first.

-rohan

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 1:12 PM,
Arjuna Sathiaseelan <[email-masked]>
wrote:

Bruce Balkie alerted me on this - a kick
starter type project!

ttps://www.indiegogo.com/projects/lantern-one-device-free-data-from-space-forever

gaia mailing list

[email-masked]

---

From: Steve Song <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:27:09 +0000

I met Syed Karim, the founder of OuterNet (Lantern), last month in Brazil.
A very nice guy and I was impressed by his drive.  I asked him how OuterNet
had learned from the Worldspace experience.  He answered that a) they use
other people's satellites and b) their ground tech is much cheaper. They
are committed to Open Standards and to re-purposing existing tech like DVB
dishes both of which are big points in their favour IMO.

They will need to develop a large critical mass of users in order to make
the eyeballs driven business model they have work.  They already have a
healthy overhead in making all that data available at satellite teleports.

I think the biggest challenge they face is the fact that, at its heart, the
Internet is a social medium, not a big library.  As Cory Doctorow put it so
well, and I never tire of repeating this because it is forgotten so often,
"Content is not king. Conversation is king. Content is just something to
talk about."   A simple glance at the success of FB tells you this is true.
I think OuterNet is likely to work best in environments where there is
connectivity but it is comparatively expensive.

I do register a little discomfort with any technology that advertises its
utility in disaster-relief without ever having been tested in a real
disaster. OuterNet joins a number of alternative technologies in that
regard.  Perhaps that is simply a catch-22 but it feels slightly
disingenuous.

Cheers... Steve

On Thu Nov 13 2014 at 08:18:38 Mike <[email-masked]> wrote:

>  There's a service like Lantern, but already fully operational - Yazmi.com
> - it re-purposed Noah Samara's old Worldspace satellite network and uses a
> On 13-11-2014 08:27, Arjuna Sathiaseelan wrote:
>
> Hello Rohan
>
>>  This is fantastic, except that the coverage area is exactly backwards
>> for their target user base. They are starting with coverage in North
>> America and Western Europe first.
>>  -rohan
>>
> gaia mailing [email-masked]://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia
>
>

---

From: Paola Di Maio <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:12:15 +0530

Thank you Steve

It would be good if GAIA network could increase information flow and help
 connect people with different challenges (the entrepreneurs with possible
innovative solutions and the end users in various regions, for example) if
they decided to partner with local communities worldwide

We could easily run some tests for technologies like Lantern and provide
service usage data when the time is right :-)

PDM

On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 6:57 PM, Steve Song <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I met Syed Karim, the founder of OuterNet (Lantern), last month in
> Brazil.  A very nice guy and I was impressed by his drive.  I asked him how
> OuterNet had learned from the Worldspace experience.  He answered that a)
> they use other people's satellites and b) their ground tech is much
> cheaper. They are committed to Open Standards and to re-purposing existing
> tech like DVB dishes both of which are big points in their favour IMO.
>
> I think the biggest challenge they face is the fact that, at its heart,
> the Internet is a social medium, not a big library.  As Cory Doctorow put
> it so well, and I never tire of repeating this because it is forgotten so
> often, "Content is not king. Conversation is king. Content is just
> something to talk about."   A simple glance at the success of FB tells you
> this is true. I think OuterNet is likely to work best in environments where
> there is connectivity but it is comparatively expensive.
>
>> Yazmi.com - it re-purposed Noah Samara's old Worldspace satellite network
>> and uses a

---

From: Henning G Schulzrinne <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 09:32:41 -0500

There are essentially three models, it seems:

* demand aggregation: Internet cafes, phone stores, libraries, community
centers, ...

* capital aggregation: in the US, rural electric cooperatives served that
need for rural electrification (and may do the same for some rural
broadband)

* lease models: see the SolarCity model, where a large capital expense for
residential solar is converted into retained savings

---

From: Samo Grasic <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 13:18:28 +0100

Despite  the fact that I really like the idea, I am skeptical that this 
can work.
In addition to the problem that Steve pointed out, it is also very 
problematic how they aggregate the data and the selection process behind 
it.
In order to add the content to the downstream you already need to be 
connected. Further more, as it seems to me the suggested data stream 
needs to be in a "public" or better "popular" interest of people that 
are already connected.

It is interesting to look at the current OuterNet feed page (sorte by 
the votes).
I am not sure if the communities that are in the need of ICTs living in 
a remote and undeveloped parts of the world interested in: Hackaday, 
reddit, Zeitgeist, etc.
Or even more problematic ones: Google translate, Google maps, etc...

10 years ago I looked into the one-way satellite internet ( I believe it 
was Astra) downstream. To my surprise 2/3 of the files that I managed to 
capture with a small dish and a dvb-s card was just porn.

Regards,
Samo Grasic

On 11/13/2014 2:27 PM, Steve Song wrote:
> Brazil.  A very nice guy and I was impressed by his drive.  I asked 
> him how OuterNet had learned from the Worldspace experience.  He 
> answered that a) they use other people's satellites and b) their 
> ground tech is much cheaper. They are committed to Open Standards and 
> to re-purposing existing tech like DVB dishes both of which are big 
> points in their favour IMO.
>
> They will need to develop a large critical mass of users in order to 
> make the eyeballs driven business model they have work.  They already 
> have a healthy overhead in making all that data available at satellite 
> teleports.
>
> I think the biggest challenge they face is the fact that, at its 
> heart, the Internet is a social medium, not a big library.  As Cory 
> Doctorow put it so well, and I never tire of repeating this because it 
> is forgotten so often, "Content is not king. Conversation is 
> king. Content is just something to talk about."   A simple glance at 
> the success of FB tells you this is true. I think OuterNet is likely 
> to work best in environments where there is connectivity but it is 
> comparatively expensive.
>
> I do register a little discomfort with any technology that advertises 
> its utility in disaster-relief without ever having been tested in a 
> real disaster. OuterNet joins a number of alternative technologies in 
> that regard.  Perhaps that is simply a catch-22 but it feels slightly 
> disingenuous.
>
> Cheers... Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu Nov 13 2014 at 08:18:38 Mike <[email-masked] 
> <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
>
>>     I presume its because thats where they can start trialling,
>>     easier to bootstrap from the funding perspective?
>>
>>     On 13 Nov 2014 06:01, "Rohan Mahy" <[email-masked]
>>     <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
>>
>>         This is fantastic, except that the coverage area is exactly
>>         backwards for their target user base. They are starting with
>>         coverage in North America and Western Europe first.
>>         -rohan
>>
>>         On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Arjuna Sathiaseelan
>>         <[email-masked]
>>         <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
>>
>>             <http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/lantern-one-device-free-data-from-space-forever>
>>
>>
>>             [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>
>>     [email-masked]  <mailto:[email-masked]>
>     [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>