Subject: Re: [gaia] draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments. Mitar review, question #9: Services provided

From: "Jose Saldana" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 10:55:13 +0200

Hi,

> Section 7.3., services provided
> 
> What is this section? A non-comprehensive list of services on the Internet
and
> networks in general? This looks pretty useless section which would not
inform
> anyone reading this draft of anything about alternative networks.
> 
> If something, then it would be interesting to talk about specialized
services
> developed just for community/alternative networks:
> 
> - Inter-network peering/VPNs: https://wiki.freifunk.net/IC-VPN
> - Local wikis like: https://localwiki.org
> - Community oriented portals: http://tidepools.co/
> - Network monitoring/deployment/maintenance platforms
> - VoIP sharing between networks, allowing cheap calls between countries
> - Sensor networks and citizen science build by adding sensors to devices
> - Community radio/TV stations
> 
> What is interesting that some networks do not even provide Internet
access. For
> example, in Croatia, historically, there were wireless communities which
made
> networks in villages just to be able to play games.

Do you have any reference/example?

> 
> Section 7.3.2.1, web browsing proxies
> 
> "Other services (file sharing, VoIP, etc.) are not usually allowed in many
Alternative
> Networks due to bandwidth limitations."
> 
> That would go against net neutrality and anti-censorship principles which
are
> important in many other alternative networks. So the question how
informative this
> sentence is, because for some maybe this is true, for some it is not, and
some
> probably are build just around this. Others probably address this with
innovative
> solutions like internal file servers.

This other e-mail also suggested some improvements:
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/gaia/current/msg01191.html

This is the improved version of the section. Feel free to say whatever you
want.

7.3.  Services provided

   This section provides an overview of the services provided by the
   network.  Many Alternative Networks can be considered Autonomous
   Systems, being (or aspiring to be) a part of the Internet.

   The services provided can include, but are not limited to:

   o  Web browsing.

   o  e-mail.

   o  Remote desktop (e.g. using my home computer and my Internet
      connection when I am away).

   o  FTP file sharing (e.g. distribution of software and media).

   o  VoIP (e.g. with SIP).

   o  P2P file sharing.

   o  Public video cameras.

   o  DNS.

   o  Online games servers.

   o  Jabber instant messaging.

   o  Weather stations.

   o  Network monitoring.

   o  Videoconferencing / streaming.

   o  Radio streaming.

   o  Message / Bulletin board.

   Due to bandwidth limitations, some services (file sharing, VoIP,
   etc.) may not be allowed in some Alternative Networks.  In some of
   these cases, a number of federated proxies provide web browsing
   service for the users.

   Some specialized services have been especifically developed for
   Alternative Networks:

   o  Inter-network peering/VPNs (e.g. https://wiki.freifunk.net/IC-
      VPN).

   o  Local wikis (e.g. https://localwiki.org).

   o  Community oriented portals (e.g. http://tidepools.co/).

   o  Network monitoring/deployment/maintenance platform.s

   o  VoIP sharing between networks, allowing cheap calls between
      countries.

   o  Sensor networks and citizen science build by adding sensors to
      devices.

   o  Community radio/TV stations.

7.3.1.  Use of VPNs

   Some "micro-ISPs" may use the network as a backhaul for providing
   Internet access, setting up VPNs from the client to a machine with
   Internet access.

7.3.2.  Other facilities

   Other facilities, as NTP or IRC servers may also be present in
   Alternative Networks.

Best regards,

Jose

---

From: Mitar <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 03:50:34 -0700

Hi!

> Do you have any reference/example?

For which one? Networks in Croatia? There are some links, but I do not
think many are really active anymore:

http://wireless.mzm.hr/
http://wireless.uzice.net/
http://www.dugave.net/
http://www.wirelesskz.net/
http://www.5net.hr/
http://extremewifi.hr/

Anyway, this was just an example. I think listing those specialized
services for community/alternative networks above is more important.

> This is the improved version of the section. Feel free to say whatever you

I do not have strong position on this section. To me it feels a bit
redundant, but it is probably a question of style.

Mitar

> _______________________________________________
> gaia mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

-- 
http://mitar.tnode.com/
https://twitter.com/mitar_m

---

From: Claudio Pisa <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 15:22:40 +0200

Hello.

>> - Community radio/TV stations

I would add internal search engines to the list of services specifically
designed for CNs.

References:

 - wahoo and woogle in AWMN (article in German):
https://www.woz.ch/1349/athens-internet-der-zukunft/wireless-woogle-und-wahoo

 - Ninuxoo in ninux.org: https://github.com/ninuxorg/ninuxoo

And perhaps also community-network whois services could be added as
CN-specific services or to the "Other facilities" subsection.

Reference:
https://github.com/ninuxorg/chininux

cheers,
Claudio

-- 
Claudio Pisa, Ph.D.
Researcher at CNIT - University of Rome "Tor Vergata" Research Unit
Via del Politecnico, 1 - 00133 - Rome, Italy
Phone: +39 067259 7773  E-mail: [email-masked]

---

From: panayotis antoniadis <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 11:45:37 +0200

Hi again,

My second high-level comment is that if one "opens the door" of local
services, it is crucial from a classification point of view to clarify
what exactly means "local". Are these services offered to a wider
public or only to the members/contributors of the community network?

There is even a technical dimension to this separation. The local
services of AWMN mentioned by someone are mostly available
for the members/contributors of the network. One needs to have
installed an antenna on his/her roof to have access to them since
the "access to the public" network of AWMN is rather limited.

And so this opens up more complex issues related to the
concept of community itself, inclusion, etc. Going back to the issue of
motivation, it is very often the case that members of community
networks wish to see themselves as part of a network that it does
not "just" provide Internet access. But my impression, based on "secondary
sources", is that very rarely these "local" services are "successful" and
even less often are accessible to a wider audience.

Actually, in a recent event we organized in Transmediale, 
http://2016.transmediale.de/content/off-the-cloud-zone, one of the founders
of a big European community network stated that "local services in
community networks is a myth".

In the same event, we had many representatives of artistic/activist 
projects
that use one-node solutions, e.g., a captive portal installed on a 
Raspberry Pi,
like PirateBox and Occupy.here (see also http://nethood.org/links.php).
Shouldn't they be part of a classification of alternative networks that 
includes local-only services?