Subject: RE: [Gen-art] Re: draft-arberg-pppoe-iana-01.txt

From: "Gray, Eric" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:35:05 -0400

Brian,

	I agree.  My observation was that - according to existing
procedures and rules WRT references to an ID - I wondered if IANA
could include such references.

--
Eric

--> -----Original Message-----
--> From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:[email-masked]] 
--> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:18 AM
--> To: Mark Townsley
--> Cc: [email-masked]; 'Vince Mammoliti'; 'Gray, Eric'; 
--> [email-masked]
--> Subject: Re: [Gen-art] Re: draft-arberg-pppoe-iana-01.txt
--> 
--> If it's FCFS, it would be a violation of RFC 2234 to insist
--> on a normative reference, I think.
--> 
-->     Brian
--> 
--> Mark Townsley wrote:
--> > Peter Arberg wrote:
--> > 
--> >> Hi,
--> >>
--> >> thanks Eric for the review and the good change suggestions.
--> >>
--> >> I have updated the document with all your suggestions, 
--> and attached
--> >> it for reference.
--> >>
--> >> With regards to the informative references, Mark what do 
--> you suggest ?
--> >>
--> >> Do we wait for [BERRY] and [ARBERG] to get RFC numbers 
--> and then move 
--> >> them to normative references ?
--> >> With regards to [CARREL] I do not think anyone is 
--> looking at moving this
--> >> draft forward, but it is implemented in BRAS equipment 
--> today, and is in
--> >> use in networks, so we somehow need to keep the reference.
--> >>   
--> > 
--> > Looking at this further, I have to disagree with Eric that the 
--> > references need to be Normative in order to appease IANA. 
--> This is an 
--> > FCFS registry, it will be very likely that IANA will have 
--> to deal with 
--> > non-RFC, and perhaps draft-only references. This is 
--> commonly done, as an 
--> > example:
--> > 
--> > http://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-extended-communities
--> > 
--> > Eric, if you insist we can take this up with IANA and the 
--> RFC Editor to 
--> > see what the right thing to do here is, but I think that 
--> keeping these 
--> > references as Informative will suffice.
--> > 
--> > - Mark
--> > 
--> >> thanks,
--> >> Peter
--> >>
--> >>  
--> >>
--> >>> -----Original Message-----
--> >>> From: Mark Townsley [mailto:[email-masked]] Sent: 
--> 31. maj 2006 15:04
--> >>> To: Gray, Eric
--> >>> Cc: Peter Arberg; Vince Mammoliti; [email-masked]
--> >>> Subject: Re: draft-arberg-pppoe-iana-01.txt
--> >>>
--> >>> Gray, Eric wrote:
--> >>>     
--> ==============================================================
--> >>> =========
--> >>>    
--> >>>
--> >>>> First, while I have to agree the three references 
--> listed as       
--> >>>
--> >>> Informative
--> >>>    
--> >>>
--> >>>> are what I would imagine most people could agree to be 
--> just       
--> >>>
--> >>> that, it is
--> >>>    
--> >>>
--> >>>> probable that IANA cannot create the registries 
--> indicated       
--> >>>
--> >>> until these
--> >>>    
--> >>>
--> >>>> references are published, and possible that IANA will 
--> not       
--> >>>
--> >>> want this to
--> >>>    
--> >>>
--> >>>> be published until they can create the corresponding       
--> >>>
--> >>> registries.  This
--> >>>    
--> >>>
--> >>>> means that these references are essentially Normative in       
--> >>>
--> >>> their effect
--> >>>    
--> >>>
--> >>>> on publication of this draft.
--> >>>>
--> >>>> Is IANA going to be willing to allow publication of this       
--> >>>
--> >>> document as a
--> >>>    
--> >>>
--> >>>> BCP without first creating the registries?  Can IANA 
--> create       
--> >>>
--> >>> a registry
--> >>>    
--> >>>
--> >>>> with references to WIP?
--> >>>>
--> >>>>
--> >>>>       
--> >>>
--> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------
--> >>> ---------
--> >>>    
--> >>>
--> >>>>         
--> >>>
--> >>> Indeed you have uncovered a couple of bugs here, Thanks Eric.
--> >>>
--> >>> I went to check up on these three references. The 
--> [BERRY] reference 
--> >>> is for a draft that was actually approved by the IESG 
--> back in Jan, 
--> >>> but seems to have popped out of the RFC Editor's queue 
--> shortly after. 
--> >>> I had not noticed and am following up.
--> >>>
--> >>> The [ARBERG] reference was just approved days ago, I 
--> assume it is 
--> >>> advancing normally. Michelle (IANA) specifically 
--> acknowledged the 
--> >>> IANA considerations section (which provides a 
--> cross-reference to the 
--> >>> iana document) when this happened last week.
--> >>>
--> >>> With respect to the [CARREL] reference (PADN and PADM), 
--> no one has 
--> >>> asked me to publish this, and I am not aware of its 
--> advancement. The 
--> >>> values are FCFS, so technically a draft is not needed, 
--> but it would 
--> >>> be good to know if anyone is going to advance this or 
--> not. Perhaps it 
--> >>> should not be in the initial list? Authors, do we know 
--> if this is 
--> >>> implemented and in use?
--> >>>
--> >>> Thanks,
--> >>>
--> >>> - Mark
--> >>>
--> >>>     
--> >>> 
--> ------------------------------------------------------------
--> ------------
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> Internet Draft                                          
-->     Peter Arberg
--> >>>                                                         
--> Redback Networks
--> >>> Intended status: Best Current Practice Expiration Date: August 
--> >>> 2006                             Vince Mammoliti
--> >>>                                                         
-->    Cisco Systems
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>                                                         
-->    February 2006
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>            IANA Considerations for PPP over Ethernet (PPPoE)
--> >>>
--> >>>                     draft-arberg-pppoe-iana-01.txt
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> Status of this Memo
--> >>>
--> >>>    By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author 
--> represents that any
--> >>>    applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or 
--> she is aware
--> >>>    have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he 
--> or she becomes
--> >>>    aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 
--> 6 of BCP 79.
--> >>>
--> >>>    Internet-Drafts are working documents of the 
--> Internet Engineering
--> >>>    Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working 
--> groups. Note that other
--> >>>    groups may also distribute working documents as 
--> Internet-Drafts.
--> >>>
--> >>>    Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a 
--> maximum of six months
--> >>>    and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other 
--> documents at any
--> >>>    time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference
--> >>>    material or to cite them other than as "work in progress."
--> >>>
--> >>>    The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at
--> >>>    http://www.ietf.org/1id-abstracts.html
--> >>>
--> >>>    The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be 
--> accessed at
--> >>>    http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html.
--> >>>
--> >>>    This Internet-Draft will expire on August 31, 2006.
--> >>>
--> >>> Copyright Notice
--> >>>
--> >>>    Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2006).
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> Abstract
--> >>>
--> >>>    This document describes the IANA considerations for 
--> the PPP over 
--> >>>    Ethernet (PPPoE) protocol.
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> Arberg                    Expires August 2006           
-->         [Page 1]
--> >>> --> 
--> >>> Internet Draft        draft-arberg-pppoe-iana-01.txt    
-->    February 2006
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> Table of Contents
--> >>>
--> >>>    1. 
--> Introduction...............................................   2
--> >>>     1.1 
--> Terminology..............................................   2
--> >>>     1.2 Specification of 
--> Requirements............................   2
--> >>>    2. IANA 
--> Considerations........................................   3
--> >>>     2.1 Registration Policies for PPPoE TAG 
--> Values...............   3
--> >>>     2.2 Reserved PPPoE TAG 
--> Values................................   3
--> >>>     2.3 Registration Policies for PPPoE Code 
--> fields..............   4
--> >>>     2.4 Reserved PPPoE Code 
--> fields...............................   4
--> >>>    3. Security 
--> Considerations....................................   4
--> >>>    4. 
--> References.................................................   5
--> >>>     4.1 Normative 
--> References.....................................   5
--> >>>     4.2 Informative 
--> References...................................   5
--> >>>       Author's 
--> Address...........................................   5
--> >>>       Full Copyright 
--> Statement...................................   6
--> >>>       Intellectual Property 
--> Statement............................   6
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> 1. Introduction
--> >>>
--> >>>    This document provides guidance to the Internet 
--> Assigned Numbers
--> >>>    Authority (IANA) regarding the registration of 
--> values related to 
--> >>>    the PPP over Ethernet Protocol (PPPoE), defined in 
--> [RFC2516], in
--> >>>    accordance with BCP 26, [RFC2434].  It also reserves 
--> PPPoE TAG
--> >>>    values as well as PPPoE packet Code fields which are 
--> or have been
--> >>>    in use on the Internet.
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> 1.1 Terminology
--> >>>
--> >>>    The following terms are used here with the meanings 
--> defined in
--> >>>    BCP 26:  "name space", "registration".
--> >>>
--> >>>    The following policies are used here with the 
--> meanings defined in
--> >>>    BCP 26: "First Come First Served".
--> >>>
--> >>> 1.2 Specification of Requirements
--> >>>
--> >>>    In this document, several words are used to signify 
--> the requirements
--> >>>    of the specification.  These words are often 
--> capitalized.  The key
--> >>>    words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", 
--> "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD",
--> >>>    "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" 
--> in this document
--> >>>    are to be interpreted as described in [RFC2119].
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> Arberg                    Expires August 2006           
-->         [Page 2]
--> >>> --> 
--> >>> Internet Draft        draft-arberg-pppoe-iana-01.txt    
-->    February 2006
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> 2. IANA Considerations
--> >>>
--> >>>    The PPPoE protocol as defined in [RFC2516] defines 
--> two name spaces 
--> >>>    that requires registration, the PPPoE TAG and the 
--> PPPoE Code field.
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> 2.1 Registration Policies for PPPoE TAG Values
--> >>>
--> >>>    IANA shall set up a registry of "PPPoE TAG Values". These are
--> >>>    16-bit values. PPPoE TAG values already in use are 
--> specified as    
--> >>> reserved in this document, all other TAG values between 
--> 0 and 65535 
--> >>>    are to be assigned by IANA, using the "First Come 
--> First Served"    
--> >>> policy defined in [RFC2434].
--> >>>    A TAG-Name, and a point of contact or a 
--> specification description 
--> >>>    (if any exists) MUST be provided for any assignment 
--> from this    
--> >>> registry."
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> 2.2 Reserved PPPoE TAG Values
--> >>>
--> >>>    TAG Value            TAG Name                        
-->  Reference
--> >>>    --------------       -------------------------       
-->  ---------
--> >>>    0       0x0000       End-Of-List                     
-->  [RFC2516]
--> >>>       257     0x0101       Service-Name                 
-->     [RFC2516]
--> >>>    258     0x0102       AC-Name                         
-->  [RFC2516]
--> >>>    259     0x0103       Host-Uniq                       
-->  [RFC2516]
--> >>>    260     0x0104       AC-Cookie                       
-->  [RFC2516]
--> >>>    261     0x0105       Vendor-Specific                 
-->  [RFC2516]
--> >>>    262     0x0106       Credits                          [BERRY]
--> >>>    263     0x0107       Metrics                          [BERRY]
--> >>>    264     0x0108       Sequence Number                  [BERRY]
--> >>>
--> >>>    272     0x0110       Relay-Session-Id                
-->  [RFC2516]
--> >>>    273     0x0111       HURL                            
-->  [CARREL]
--> >>>    274     0x0112       MOTM                            
-->  [CARREL]
--> >>>       288     0x0120       PPP-Max-Payload              
-->     [ARBERG]
--> >>>    289     0x0121       IP_Route_Add                    
-->  [CARREL]
--> >>>       513     0x0201       Service-Name-Error           
-->     [RFC2516]
--> >>>    514     0x0202       AC-System-Error                 
-->  [RFC2516]
--> >>>    515     0x0203       Generic-Error                   
-->  [RFC2516]
--> >>>   
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> Arberg                    Expires August 2006           
-->         [Page 3]
--> >>> --> 
--> >>> Internet Draft        draft-arberg-pppoe-iana-01.txt    
-->    February 2006
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> 2.3 Registration Policies for PPPoE Code fields
--> >>>
--> >>>    IANA shall set up a registry of PPPoE Active 
--> Discovery Code    
--> >>> fields. These are 8-bit values. PPPoE Code fields 
--> already in use    
--> >>> are specified as reserved in this document, all other 
--> Code values    
--> >>> between 0 and 255 are to be assigned by IANA, using the 
-->    "First 
--> >>> Come First Served" policy defined in [RFC2434].
--> >>>    A PPPoE Active Discovery packet name and a point of 
--> contact or a 
--> >>>    specification description (if any exists) MUST be 
--> provided for any 
--> >>>    assignment from this registry."
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> 2.4 Reserved PPPoE Code fields
--> >>>
--> >>>    Code Value  PPPoE Packet Name                        
-->  Reference
--> >>>    ----------  ---------------------------------------  
-->  ---------
--> >>>    0     0x00  PPP Session Stage                        
-->  [RFC2516]
--> >>>
--> >>>    7     0x07  PADO, Offer                              
-->  [RFC2516]
--> >>>    9     0x09  PADI, Initiation                         
-->  [RFC2516]
--> >>>
--> >>>    10    0x0a  PADG, Session-Grant                       [BERRY]
--> >>>    11    0x0b  PADC, Session-Credit Response             [BERRY]
--> >>>    12    0x0c  PADQ, Quality                             [BERRY]
--> >>>
--> >>>    25    0x19  PADR, Request                            
-->  [RFC2516]
--> >>>    101   0x65  PADS, Session-confirmation               
-->  [RFC2516]
--> >>>
--> >>>    167   0xa7  PADT, Terminate                          
-->  [RFC2516]
--> >>>
--> >>>    211   0xd3  PADM, Message                            
-->  [CARREL]
--> >>>    212   0xd4  PADN, Network                            
-->  [CARREL]
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> 3. Security Considerations
--> >>>
--> >>>    This document focuses on IANA considerations for the PPPoE 
--> >>> protocol,    and as such should help remove the 
--> possibility for the 
--> >>> same PPPoE
--> >>>    code field and PPPoE TAG value being used for different    
--> >>> functionalities.
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> Arberg                    Expires August 2006           
-->         [Page 4]
--> >>> --> 
--> >>> Internet Draft        draft-arberg-pppoe-iana-01.txt    
-->    February 2006
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> 4. References
--> >>>
--> >>> 4.1 Normative References
--> >>>
--> >>>    [RFC2119]      Bradner, S., "Key words for use in 
--> RFCs to Indicate
--> >>>                   Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 
--> 2119, March 1997.
--> >>>
--> >>>    [RFC2434]      Narten, T. and H. Alvestrand, 
--> "Guidelines for Writing
--> >>>                   an IANA Considerations Section in 
--> RFCs", BCP 26, RFC
--> >>>                   2434, October 1998.
--> >>>
--> >>>    [RFC2516]      Mamakos L., Lidl K., Evarts J., 
--> Carrel D., Simone 
--> >>> D.,                   Wheeler R., "A Method for 
--> Transmitting PPP Over 
--> >>>                   Ethernet (PPPoE)", RFC 2516, February 1999
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> 4.2 Informative References
--> >>>
--> >>>    [CARREL]       Carrel D., Simone D., Ho C., Stoner 
--> T., "Extensions 
--> >>>                   to a Method for Transmitting PPP Over 
--> Ethernet 
--> >>>                   (PPPoE)", work in progress.
--> >>>
--> >>>    [BERRY]        Berry B., Holgate H., "PPP Over 
--> Ethernet (PPPoE) 
--> >>>                   Extensions for Credit Flow and Link Metrics", 
--> >>>                   work in progress.
--> >>>
--> >>>    [ARBERG]       Arberg P., Kourkouzelis D., Duckett 
--> M., Anschutz 
--> >>> T.,                   Moisand J., "Accommodating an 
--> MTU/MRU greater 
--> >>> than                   1492 in PPPoE", work in progress.
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> Authors' Addresses
--> >>>
--> >>>    Peter Arberg    Redback Networks, Inc.
--> >>>    300 Holger Way
--> >>>    San Jose, CA 95134
--> >>>    USA
--> >>>    Email: [email-masked]
--> >>>
--> >>>    Vince Mammoliti
--> >>>    Cisco Systems, Inc.
--> >>>    181 Bay Street, Suite 3400
--> >>>    Toronto, Ontario, M5J 2T3
--> >>>    Canada
--> >>>    EMail: [email-masked]
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> Arberg                    Expires August 2006           
-->         [Page 5]
--> >>> --> 
--> >>> Internet Draft        draft-arberg-pppoe-iana-01.txt    
-->    February 2006
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> Full Copyright Statement
--> >>>
--> >>>    Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2005).
--> >>>
--> >>>    This document is subject to the rights, licenses and 
--> restrictions
--> >>>    contained in BCP 78, and except as set forth 
--> therein, the authors
--> >>>    retain all their rights.
--> >>>
--> >>>    This document and the information contained herein 
--> are provided on an
--> >>>    "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION 
--> HE/SHE REPRESENTS
--> >>>    OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY 
--> AND THE INTERNET
--> >>>    ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, 
--> EXPRESS OR IMPLIED,
--> >>>    INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF THE
--> >>>    INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR 
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--> >>>    WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A 
--> PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> Intellectual Property Statement
--> >>>
--> >>>    The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or 
--> scope of any
--> >>>    Intellectual Property Rights or other rights that 
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--> >>>
--> >>>    Funding for the RFC Editor function is currently 
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--> >>>    Internet Society.
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>>
--> >>> Arberg                    Expires August 2006           
-->         [Page 6]
--> > 
--> > 
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