Subject: [homenet] A poll

From: Dave Taht <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 08:50:10 -0800

The homenet working group has been laboring for several years now to
find ways to make ipv6 more deployable to home (and presumably small
business) users.

In addition to multiple specification documents some code has been
produced to try and make things easier. At least in the USA, comcast
has rolled out IPv6 to everyone that can get dhcpv6 to sort of work on
their router, and/or is willing to install a custom firmware on their
router to get that, and of course tunneling ipv6 is possible if the
ISP does not support it.

So a quick poll:

0) Have you managed to get ipv6 working at all? If so, how? What sort
of problems did you encounter?

1) Have you attempted to deploy a routing protocol in your home? Which
one, and why?

2) Have you attempted to get hnetd's prefix distribution system
working? (it supports linux mainline and openwrt presently)

3) Do you use ethernet? How many clients in your home are ethernet connected?

4) Do you use wifi? How many clients are wifi connected? Do you use
range extenders?

5) How many devices do you think you will have connected to the
network in your home in 5 years? How many now?

6) Do you use any other network connected technologies (homeplug,
802.14, LTE, etc). If so, which ones, and why?

7) Do you use mdns service discovery?

8) Why are you here? (especially, if your answers to 0-2, are "no")

-- 
Dave Täht

http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/bloat/wiki/Upcoming_Talks

---

From: Jim Gettys <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 12:04:55 -0500

> of problems did you encounter?

​Yes.  Both hurricane electric tunnel​

​and Comcast native IPv6.

Getting the HE tunnel configured properly is somewhat a pain, as the
terminology on OpenWrt is slightly different than that used by HE.

The native IPv6 from Comcast has been fine.​

> 1) Have you attempted to deploy a routing protocol in your home? Which

​Babel.  Out of the box in CeroWrt.​

> 3) Do you use ethernet? How many clients in your home are ethernet

​Dunno exactly.  Probably around 8-10 devices.​

> 4) Do you use wifi?

​Yes.​

> How many clients are wifi connected?

​maybe 8-10 devices.​

> Do you use

​No
​

> network in your home in 5 years?

​25.​

> How many now?

​Maybe 16.​

> 802.14, LTE, etc). If so, which ones, and why?

​No.
​

> 7) Do you use mdns service discovery?

​Yes.
​

> _______________________________________________
> homenet mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet
>

---

From: Mikael Abrahamsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 19:24:01 +0100 (CET)

> 1) Have you attempted to deploy a routing protocol in your home? Which

Home, HE tunnel.

> working? (it supports linux mainline and openwrt presently)

Yes, I had this working, but since the routers I had available (WNDR3800) 
didn't perform forwarding quickly enough for my everyday needs, I didn't 
put them into "production".

> 3) Do you use ethernet? How many clients in your home are ethernet connected?

Well, since 802.11 is ethernet as well I will interpret this as "how many 
devices in your home use cable", and say 9.

> 4) Do you use wifi? How many clients are wifi connected? Do you use

I have approximately 8-10 devices connecting using wifi, 6 of them more 
frequently than the others. I do not use wifi range extenders.

> network in your home in 5 years? How many now?

Good question, I'd say increase of 10 at least, I presume by then I will 
have some kind of "smart home" stuff such as sensors or alike.

> 802.14, LTE, etc). If so, which ones, and why?

Well, our mobile phones speak LTE, but apart from that it's the bluetooth 
usage that apples does without me having to know much about it.

> 7) Do you use mdns service discovery?

No, I use single subnet.

> 8) Why are you here? (especially, if your answers to 0-2, are "no")

I want multi-subnet home to work for everyday users such as my mom.

-- 
Mikael Abrahamsson    email: [email-masked]

---

From: Markus Stenberg <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 20:26:36 +0200

> of problems did you encounter?

Yes. Used to be he.net tunnel and now 6rd Sonera right up to my home (VDSL2).

> 1) Have you attempted to deploy a routing protocol in your home? Which

OSPFv3 at some point and nowadays Babel. Obvious reasons, homenet ;)

> working? (it supports linux mainline and openwrt presently)

Yes.

> 3) Do you use ethernet? How many clients in your home are ethernet connected?

Dozen-ish.

> 4) Do you use wifi? How many clients are wifi connected? Do you use

Half dozen. No range extenders.

> network in your home in 5 years? How many now?

<20 now. Probably 30+ in 5y.

> 802.14, LTE, etc). If so, which ones, and why?

LTE. Fallback connectivity.

> 7) Do you use mdns service discovery?

I used to. OS X 10.10 broke it on wlan pretty much. (ping foo.local => ‘foo who?’. ping foo.lan => ok.. sigh.)

> 8) Why are you here? (especially, if your answers to 0-2, are “no")

I wonder about it at times. Bad habit?

Cheers,

-Markus

---

From: Michael Thomas <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 10:41:44 -0800

> of problems did you encounter?

Yes, he. Mostly trying to figure out how to get tunnel endpoints up.

> 1) Have you attempted to deploy a routing protocol in your home? Which

no.

> working? (it supports linux mainline and openwrt presently)

no.
> 3) Do you use ethernet? How many clients in your home are ethernet connected?

~ half dozen.
> 4) Do you use wifi? How many clients are wifi connected? Do you use

it's hard to keep track of, but 5-10. and I'm not sure what you'd 
consider the ethernet
cable between my house and my friend's house with two AP's on each end 
to be.

> network in your home in 5 years? How many now?

i expect it will be way more than most of us fear/imagine. now: about 10.

> 802.14, LTE, etc). If so, which ones, and why?

Nope. LTE obviously for phones, but I don't think that's what you're asking.

> 7) Do you use mdns service discovery?

Nope.

> 8) Why are you here? (especially, if your answers to 0-2, are "no")

Mostly interested in the naming problem, and the occasional insight as 
to how service discovery saved $MEGACORP
from the dustbin of history.

Mike

---

From: Gert Doering <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 20:05:32 +0100

Hi,

> of problems did you encounter?

Yes, PPPoE/L2TP session to myself as ISP on the other end (so I cheated).

> 1) Have you attempted to deploy a routing protocol in your home? Which

Did some testing with HCNP/Babels, to see if it works.  But the "production
network" is plain flat L2 today.

> working? (it supports linux mainline and openwrt presently)

Yes, on OpenWRT.  Worked.

> 3) Do you use ethernet? How many clients in your home are ethernet connected?

Yes, ~10-ish.

> 4) Do you use wifi? How many clients are wifi connected? Do you use

Yes, ~3-5, no.

> network in your home in 5 years? How many now?

"More" - I see some sensors coming up, and maybe some of these thingies
people call "smart phones" even if they are neither smart nor very good
phones.

> 802.14, LTE, etc). If so, which ones, and why?

No.

> 7) Do you use mdns service discovery?

Half of the devices are Apple built, so, yes.

> 8) Why are you here? (especially, if your answers to 0-2, are "no")

To complain about lack of useful source address selection (aka "prefix
labeling so users can make an informed choice"), and frown about IETF 
committee behaviour.  Or so.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?

SpaceNet AG                        Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14          Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann
D-80807 Muenchen                   HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen)
Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444           USt-IdNr.: DE813185279

---

From: Steven Barth <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 20:55:20 +0100

>of problems did you
Yes. Most foss router software sucked with v6. Tried to fix some things. Still not 100% convinced. 

>1) Have you attempted to deploy a routing protocol in your home? Which
Well babels & autoisis but only for testing purposes. My production network is still single link.

>working? (it supports linux mainline and openwrt presently)
Yes

>3) Do you use ethernet? How many clients in your home are ethernet
3 to 4

>4) Do you use wifi? How many clients are wifi connected? Do you use
Yes. 5 to 8. No.

>network in your home in 5 years? How many now?
I guess 50-100% increase.

>802.14, LTE, etc). If so, which ones, and why?
Does bluetooth count? Otherwise 3.5g as connectivity backup.

>7) Do you use mdns service discovery?
Seldom. When setting up my printer. Seldomly the .local resolving.

---

From: Ted Lemon <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 15:01:50 -0500

I'd be a bit curious to know what people are using for test hardware.   That's a big issue for me.   I have a WNDR3800 as an internal router, and a Mac Mini as my edge router, and haven't had time to really try to make HNCP and Babel work with them.   Making IPv6 prefix delegation work on a stock Ubuntu device is not seamless.   :/

---

From: Steven Barth <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 21:13:23 +0100

Am 20. Februar 2015 21:01:50 MEZ, schrieb Ted Lemon <[email-masked]>:
>I'd be a bit curious to know what people are using for test hardware.  
>That's a big issue for me.   I have a WNDR3800 as an internal router,
>and a Mac Mini as my edge router, and haven't had time to really try to
>make HNCP and Babel work with them.   Making IPv6 prefix delegation
>work on a stock Ubuntu device is not seamless.   :/

Buffalo wzr600dhp with some bleeding edge openwrt w/ hnetd (hncp + dhcpv6pd) etc. as primary router + small number of wndr3800 and / or tplinks for testing openwrt and hncp.

---

From: Mark Andrews <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2015 07:23:34 +1100

> of problems did you encounter?

HE tunnel to a FreeBSD base router.  dhclient-exit-hooks are used to
automatically reconfigure the tunnel on IPv4 renumber events.

HE tunnel to a MacBookPro running 10.8.5.  The kernel panic when suspending
the MacBook with the tunnel enabled.

no.

no.

> 3) Do you use ethernet? How many clients in your home are ethernet 

yes. 5
 
> 4) Do you use wifi? How many clients are wifi connected? Do you use

yes. 9 to over 30.  This is bridged to the ethernet segment.
no range extenders.`
 
> network in your home in 5 years? How many now?

20+

> 802.14, LTE, etc). If so, which ones, and why?

no
 
> 7) Do you use mdns service discovery?

Some of the machine use it automaticall. 

> Dave Tht

-- 
Mark Andrews, ISC
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742                 INTERNET: [email-masked]

---

From: Juliusz Chroboczek <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 21:33:00 +0100

> I'd be a bit curious to know what people are using for test hardware.

The WNDR3800/WNDR3700v2 is still my favourite.  I've still got a couple
Asus 500GP v1, and they're just fine if you don't need 802.11n and can
fit in the slightly more limited flash.

Both models:

  - are well supported by OpenWRT;
  - are very difficult to brick (just set up a tftp server and interrupt
    the boot sequence to reflash);
  - have a manageable built-in switch that's configurable from OpenWRT.

The WNDR3800 has 16/128 flash/RAM, the 3700v2 16/64, the Asus 8/32.

The WNDR3800/3700v2 has some other nice features, like a second gigabit
NIC that doesn't go through the internal switch (to get VLANs without
messing with the switch), support for 5GHz, and two radios usable
simultaneously (which Babel is able to use for avoiding intra-route
interference).

-- Juliusz

---

From: David Oran <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 15:38:50 -0500

> On Feb 20, 2015, at 11:50 AM, Dave Taht <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
Works fine at both my Cambridge home and my Mountain View Condo. In both cases I’m using Airport Extremes as the home router. In one case it’s a DOCSIS 3.0 modem from Comcast, with the Airports doing PD. In the other case it’s behind a pair of Ubiquity radios homed on a Linux router in turn connected to Comcast business service with PD.

> 1) Have you attempted to deploy a routing protocol in your home? Which
I run OSPF at home in Cambridge, mostly to route in a controlled way among some VLANs I use for isolation purposes. There are trunk VLANs running from the main switch to an access switch in my home office.

> working? (it supports linux mainline and openwrt presently)
No. The Airport Extreme IPv6 with PD has been adequate for my needs.

> 3) Do you use ethernet? How many clients in your home are ethernet connected?
Yes. Total count excluding 802.11 clients is probably 10-12. 4 macs, a NAS, AppleTV, two Tivos, Sonos bridge, 2 printers.

> 4) Do you use wifi?
Yes, extensively - In Cambrige to get coverage I have a WiFi AP in each of the 3 floors (Airport Extreme + 2 Airport express.

> How many clients are wifi connected?
additional 5-7

> range extenders?
No, each of the AP’s is wired with Cat5 to a big Cisco Cat3600 switch/router.

> network in your home in 5 years? How many now?
In five years, probably at least 50, maybe more if I decide to use WiFi light bulbs and window/door sensors and other random stuff.

> 802.14, LTE, etc). If so, which ones, and why?
Not at present. All 802.11AC and N.

> 7) Do you use mdns service discovery?
Yes, extensively.

> 8) Why are you here? (especially, if your answers to 0-2, are "no”)
Because bridging sucks, and IPv6 allows us to have aminimal-touch routing solution that “just works”.

---

From: Dave Taht <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 14:22:37 -0800

> fit in the slightly more limited flash.

Despite evaluating well over 60 products and chipsets in the past 3
years, I have yet to find something as nice as the wndr3800 as either
a R&D or day to day ultra-reliable home router.

More generically the ag71xx/ath9k chipsets it used are the most
aimiable to hacking on and there are hundreds upon hundreds of current
products based on that, like the WZR the homewrt folk used.

However single cpus like that with 32k dcache proved not up to the job
of 802.11ac and there is a lot of chaos and crap gear going around on
that standard.

Elsewhere the whole wifi industry is seemingly in a race to the
bottom. As one example, I use the nanostation M5s heavily, and they
(silently) changed the underlying chipset last year from one with two
ethernet interfaces, to 1 connected to a 100Mbit switch. Result - no
link status anymore, the impossibility of measuring traffic well
across the two interfaces, and an increase of latency under load to
the buffering in the switch.

The new nanostation IS a bit faster (mips 74k based rather than 24k),
and has twice the ram, for the same cost as the old, and it still has
8MB flash, so I should not complain too much, I guess. (My typical
topology is 2 nanostations connected to a picostation  M2HP AP)

I have been seeking an integrated outdoor tri radio replacement for
that particular setup for a long time.

As for everything else I have evaluated, I am thinking of publishing
it all, after I tone down the invective logged in my notes.
Most recently I took a look at two 802.11ac products from d-link.

https://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/bloat/2015-February/002310.html

ubnt is *clued* in comparison to nearly everyone else.

> simultaneously (which Babel is able to use for avoiding intra-route

With the current chaos calmer code (using linux 3.18) I get a
downstream rate of 560mbits and an upstream of 146 on the ethernet.

The ratio used to be closer to 340/180.

So much else in my lab (notably the tcps) has changed since the last
time I did benchmarking that I have no idea what to point at, and
openwrt enables the wndr3800 vlan by default, which is not my fav
thing, either, and I haven´t poked into any of it much, being
presently focused on evaluating the latest patchset for minstrel-blues
( http://www.linuxplumbersconf.org/2014/ocw/sessions/2439 ) right now.

-- 
Dave Täht

thttp://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/bloat/wiki/Upcoming_Talks

---

From: Ralph Droms <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 17:24:45 -0500

I originally had IPv6 service through a tunnel to SixXS, which was OK once I got the details sorted.

I'm using a Linksy E4200 with development software from a project at Cisco that includes IPv6 support.  Without any announcement to me, Comcast turned on IPv6 service to my house and AIBFM I had a second prefix, advertised from the Linksys home gateway.  Interestingly, it did not disrupt my home service at all and I literally discovered the service was on as I was working on a project using IPv6 on the home network.  Devices on the network were unexpectedly showing a second prefix, which I checked to confirm was coming through PD to the Linksys home gateway.  I turned off the SixXS tunnel, and am now using just IPv6 service from Comcast.

No.

No.

Yes.  ~7 devices; some through a homeplug extension

Yes. ~10 devices.  I have 3 access points on ethernet back to the home gateway.

30 devices in 5 years; maybe more if sensors and actuators are available.  15-20 now, depending on how many little devices are connected for projects.

homeplug, 802.15.4 (for projects; not production)

Extensively.

I'm trying to figure out how we get to a network that provides the services I want, avoids performance issues and runs completely autonomously.

---

From: Ted Lemon <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 17:25:44 -0500

> a R&D or day to day ultra-reliable home router.

What about something like the Cubietruck, which isn't strictly a WiFi base station, but could function as one?

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2015 11:28:30 +1300

> So a quick poll:

Goodie, I love polls (not) ;-)

Yes.

(a) Using SixXs/ayiya. Geek problems (the SixXs geeky registration
interface, and the fact that installation is definitely not for
the general public). But it works very reliably for a single host.

(b) With my current ISP, native dual stack service via a FritzBox.
Worked out the box. Until it didn't, when the ISP admitted to switching
IPv6 off without warning due to unspecified issues with some customers.
Then they switched it on again without explanation, and it works fine
again. [Probably, the issue was MTU size problems with a well-known
CDN's nearest POP, which was across the Tasman Sea at the time; compounded
by Google's recent bad hair week.]

I've gone into detail there because for more than a year, my wife was
using IPv6 without knowing it (on Windows 8). But when the above mentioned
problems occurred, she noticed PDQ and did not have SixXs to fall back
on. So we had to disable IPv6 on her machine. Happy Eyeballs did *not*
conceal the problem.

> 1) Have you attempted to deploy a routing protocol in your home? Which

No, sorry, only one link here.

> working? (it supports linux mainline and openwrt presently)

No

> 3) Do you use ethernet? How many clients in your home are ethernet connected?

Normally zero. I would plug in if I hit wireless issues.

> 4) Do you use wifi? How many clients are wifi connected? 

Two to four (house guests get free Wi-Fi ;-). My ancient
printer refuses to break, so that is hard wired to a computer.

> Do you use range extenders?

No

> network in your home in 5 years?

Let's guess 10. But the interesting questions are how many
routers, and will it be dual-homed.

No.

> 7) Do you use mdns service discovery?

No

> 8) Why are you here? (especially, if your answers to 0-2, are "no")

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3935

   Brian

---

From: Dave Taht <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 14:36:31 -0800

> ubnt is *clued* in comparison to nearly everyone else.

The tp-link archer C7 v2, after a year of teething pains on the ath10k
interface, is a not horrible platform for openwrt development
(and the ath9k also on board, is great).  Just dont expect the claimed
802.11ac rates on the wifi,  it does not have enough
cpu to push it that hard. It was only getting wndr3800 style
forwarding rates when I last tried on on ethernet also.

I was fairly impressed with the capabilities of the netgear x4, but was
able to crash it regularly in testing when I last pulled it out and I dont think
the gpl drop landed yet so there is no open source for it.

There are a couple other 802.11ac routers out there like asus´s and
so on, I do hope the market starts sorting out one or more that is useful
to hack on.

Felix recommended trying the d-link DIR-860L *model B*, but as yet I
havent sorted out
how to actually order that. He is also hot on the mt72 chipset in it
as a candidate for multi-station queueing.

I note that I have not, for most of the last year, been heads down
into any of this stuff, I burned out pretty badly as we stablized
cerowrt by last april and needed a major break.

I happen to like gfiber´s new ethernet/wifi/video gw quite a bit, but
that is only just now beginning be deployed in austin, and there is
still a need for a followup release of the software, and I cant talk
about it much, since I worked on it. I dont see much hope of seeing
general support for the chipset it used (mindspeed) in mainline linux,
either.

..

I think that is all of my invective-free notes on various existing products.

-- 
Dave Täht

---

From: Mikael Abrahamsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2015 06:57:44 +0100 (CET)

> forwarding rates when I last tried on on ethernet also.

Which for me was around 100-120 megabit/s with a single session, which is 
definitely not enough for me with my 250/50 megabit/s Internet connection. 
Currently I use the Apple Airport Time Capsule 802.11ac thingie and a HE 
tunnel.

We're going to evaluate a product based on 
http://www.marvell.com/embedded-processors/armada-38x/ which looks very 
promising from a performance point of view.

I'll report back if we successfully get OpenWRT running on it and if I can 
find hardware based on it that can be bought retail if it seems to work 
well.

---

From: joel jaeggli <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2015 22:38:02 -0800

> of problems did you encounter?

yes,

comcast,  docsis 3.0 modem (mot surboard),  d-link dir-860L, cpe set to
auto, did dhcpv6 +pd requested at /64. previously variants of the setup
have have working v6 since 2011 with consumer gateways (mostly netgear).

> 1) Have you attempted to deploy a routing protocol in your home? Which

routed subnets, (e.g. dmz, internal) no igp

> 3) Do you use ethernet? How many clients in your home are ethernet connected?

yes, about half a dozen

> 4) Do you use wifi? How many clients are wifi connected? Do you use

yes about a dozen

> network in your home in 5 years? How many now?

more

> 802.14, LTE, etc). If so, which ones, and why?

LTE cellular gateway for use when primary is down, failover is not
automatic.

perversely the LTE has v6 when directly attached to a client machine
however not when operating as a gateway (no PD)

> 7) Do you use mdns service discovery?

yes

> 8) Why are you here? (especially, if your answers to 0-2, are "no")

to share the love.

---

From: James Woodyatt <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 12:00:00 -0800

> of problems did you encounter?

On my home network, I use Sonic.Net's unsupported private IPv6-over-IPv4
tunnel with an Apple AirPort Extreme base station. Problems I have
encountered in the last year include A) buggy firmware updates from Apple
that breaks the IPv6 tunnel, and B) occasional loss of IPv6 routing because
Sonic.net doesn't officially support IPv6 and feels okay leaving it broken
for days at a time.

> 1) Have you attempted to deploy a routing protocol in your home? Which

No. Because I need only one IEEE 802.1 link for all my devices. Everything
is globally addressed in IPv6, and my AirPort has its IPv6 simple security
mode set for transparency. I have only four public IPv4 addresses, and I
use a second IPv4/NAT router for address amplification.

> working? (it supports linux mainline and openwrt presently)

Nope. I haven't had the time or need to replace my AirPort with an OpenWRT
install on my Netgear router.

> 3) Do you use ethernet? How many clients in your home are ethernet

Only two hosts on Ethernet now. One is my DNS master, and the other is a
printer. I had five last year.

> 4) Do you use wifi? How many clients are wifi connected? Do you use

Yes and yes. I usually have ten to twelve different stations, many of which
are mobile devices.

> network in your home in 5 years? How many now?

Probably another ten or so. I'm planning to deploy some Nest devices later
this year. Those devices will not yet use HOMENET or a routing protocol on
Wi-fi, because we're still in working group development hell here.

> 802.14, LTE, etc). If so, which ones, and why?

Not yet. Ethernet and Wi-fi, with some LTE on mobile phones. The coming
Nest devices will use Thread on IEEE 802.15.4.

> 7) Do you use mdns service discovery?

Yes. Extensively. I can say that because I know what magical things Apple
is doing that relies on it working seamlessly and transparently so that
people don't know they are using it. When it breaks, of course, people
blame all kinds of unrelated stuff, but it's mDNS-SD that should be the
focus of their attention. There is a reason I haven't upgraded to OS X
10.10 yet, and its name is discoveryd.

-- 
james woodyatt <[email-masked]>
Nest Labs, Communications Engineering

---

From: Hans Liu <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 09:23:57 +0800

> of problems did you encounter?

Yes. I use DIR-855L at home, PPPoE. The only problem I have so far is my
ISP gives only /64 via PD.

No.

Yes.

> 3) Do you use ethernet? How many clients in your home are ethernet

No, everything goes Wi-Fi.

> 4) Do you use wifi? How many clients are wifi connected? Do you use

Yes. I have around 12 devices connected to my Wi-Fi network.
Yes, I use range extenders. Wi-Fi and HomePlug.

> network in your home in 5 years? How many now?

10 more, I guess?  Should be connected home devices, such as Thermostat,
smart plug, sensors, IPCam, ...etc.

> 802.14, LTE, etc). If so, which ones, and why?

Yes.  HomePlug/Wi-Fi Extender and Z-Wave.

> 7) Do you use mdns service discovery?

Yes. We use mDNS-SD for D-Link Connected Home devices.

---

From: Lorenzo Colitti <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 12:12:58 +0900

> of problems did you encounter?

Yes. The only problems were finding an ISP that supported it (Japan has...
special issues with IPv6), and occasional bugs in one of the two
ISP-provided home gateway boxes (which fortunately is optional).

> 1) Have you attempted to deploy a routing protocol in your home? Which

No, I use hierarchical DHCPv6 PD.

> working? (it supports linux mainline and openwrt presently)

No, because I only have one openwrt box.

> 3) Do you use ethernet? How many clients in your home are ethernet

Everything that can be wired (including my laptop, via docking station) is
on 1Gbps wired Ethernet. All routers are connected to each other via
Ethernet.

> 4) Do you use wifi? How many clients are wifi connected? Do you use

I try to avoid wifi because it's way too slow for my 1Gbps connection. I
also detest the unpredicability, high latency, jitter, and sucky multicast
behaviour of 802.11. On my main mobile device, I often prefer LTE over wifi
because it's fast enough, and doesn't get interrupted when I leave home or
arrive home. No range extenders because Japanese homes aren't big enough to
need them :-)

> network in your home in 5 years? How many now?

2 laptops, 5-10 mobile devices (tablets/phones, but only a few of them on
at any given time), one raspberry pi and a couple of routers.

No.

> 7) Do you use mdns service discovery?

I would like to for things like Chromecast, but I can't because it doesn't
work across routers. I have to use more than one router because my main
wifi is NAT64 / DNS64 / 464xlat, and the ISP router doesn't support DNS64.

> 8) Why are you here? (especially, if your answers to 0-2, are "no")

It would be nice if I didn't have to do hierarchical DHCPv6 PD. It would be
nice if MDNS worked.

---

From: Mark Baugher <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 10:36:37 -0800

> a R&D or day to day ultra-reliable home router.

That's been my experience, although I have not evaluated dozens of routers.
Of the 8 or so that I have used (from several different vendors), the 3800
had among the most secure default settings:  It doesn't allow someone
to take ownership of the device using a well-known password through a Wi-Fi 
interface.

Mark

---

From: Andrew Mcgregor <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 11:26:06 +1100

I should note that the Netgear series includes all these model numbers:
WNDR37AV v2
WNDR3700 v2 and v4 (NOT v3!!!)
WNDR3800
WNDR4300

Of which, the 4300 is probably the one to have, having 3x3 radios on
both bands and 128 MB of flash (3700 v4 also has the large flash).
Otherwise the differences are minor.

The TP-Link Archer C7 seems quite nice, although I've only been
playing with it less than 24 hours; my opernwrt build seems unable to
send more than 100 Mbps over the ethernet, but the WiFi side is quite
fast; I saw 270 Mbps of TCP sourced from iperf on the device,
undoubtedly CPU limited.

-- 
Andrew McGregor | SRE | [email-masked] | +61 4 1071 2221

---

From: Ted Lemon <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 21:15:10 -0500

> WNDR4300

It looks like they released a new version in December of 2014 that isn't supported by OpenWRT. :(

---

From: Mikael Abrahamsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 06:35:05 +0100 (CET)

On Wed, 25 Feb 2015, Andrew Mcgregor wrote:

> The TP-Link Archer C7 seems quite nice, although I've only been playing 
> with it less than 24 hours; my opernwrt build seems unable to send more 
> than 100 Mbps over the ethernet, but the WiFi side is quite fast; I saw 
> 270 Mbps of TCP sourced from iperf on the device, undoubtedly CPU 
> limited.

This is generally the problem, that things are CPU limited, and the CPUs 
in these are not fast enough to move packets around faster than a few 
hundred megabits/s of large packets.

There are several gig capable boxes on the market, but they typically have 
hardware packet routing accelerators with proprietary management APIs that 
need special kernels and special "board support packages" that you only 
get access to after signing NDAs. Usually currently this means a Linux 
kernel 3.2 or 3.4 or around there, which means you're tied to a very old 
kernel limiting other features on the box such as 
virtualisation/containers etc.

But I still have hopes for a brighter future...

---

From: Teco Boot <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 10:27:22 +0100

> Op 20 feb. 2015, om 17:50 heeft Dave Taht <[email-masked]> het volgende geschreven:
> 

Yes, HE tunnel.
Set up a few times, vanished same number of times.
Waiting for IPv6 roll-out in NLD. I'm hopeful for 2015.

> 1) Have you attempted to deploy a routing protocol in your home? Which

Having a small olsrd.org testbed for couple of years. IPv4-only.
In mean time, SmartGateway with multi-homing support is running fine. This provides connection pinning for mobile nodes, at setup of connection, GW is fixed so no NAT / firewall problems.
Tried MPTCP, not integrated with olsrd / sgw yet.

I have plans to move to homenet's protocols.

No.

> 3) Do you use ethernet? How many clients in your home are ethernet connected?

Yes.
About 6 nodes, stationary (iMac, TV, MacMini as backup server, Cameras, sometimes MacBook).
1x MacBook never connects to ethernet.

> 4) Do you use wifi? How many clients are wifi connected? Do you use

Yes.
About 6 nodes. More for testing.
Two own APs in production.
ISP AP with guest access for all ISP customers (millions).
Couple of APs in olsrd testbed.
Phones are APs.

> network in your home in 5 years? How many now?

Little more.

> 802.14, LTE, etc). If so, which ones, and why?

LTE (2x phone).
Maybe add ADSL to cable, for redundancy. Waiting for better multi-homing support. Now, it only adds complexity and uptime would go down....
Sometimes, tethering to phones (from MacBook) is still active at home. Should switch to high speed flat fee WiFi automatically.

Yes.

> 8) Why are you here? (especially, if your answers to 0-2, are "no")

Current situation is bad. No multi-homing, lousy roaming between APs, need for keep-alive to refresh NAT state etc.

I think the homenet protocols have much more potential than just home networks. E.g. satcom terminals act like CPE devices. Mobile devices roam between homes, cars, trains, @work, hotels.
Also, more plug&play reduces O&M costs.

Teco

---

From: Ray Hunter <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2015 16:25:00 +0100

> of problems did you encounter?
Been using IPv6 in production at home since around 2010.

Main problems have been:

The assumptions manufacturers have made about how the boxes will be 
plugged together and assuming they're the only router in the home. Hence 
Homenet.
Several bugs in Apple airport and time capsule routers, blocking traffic 
incorrectly.
Lack of Protocol41 forwarding support in a lot of equipment.
Software updates killing 6to4 configured tunnel mode.
Cisco EPC3925 that refused to go into bridge mode (probably by design of 
the ISP).
Lack of fibre into the building means I'm stuck with the local cable 
provider, although there's "net-neutral" fibre in neighbouring streets 
supporting multiple native IPv6 providers.
> 1) Have you attempted to deploy a routing protocol in your home? Which
Yes. Static routing. Nothing else was supported in common, and I wanted 
a mail server on the outside in a DMZ and a private network on the inside.
It took a lot of tweaking to find a topology that worked simultaneously 
with IPv4 and supported what I wanted to do in IPv6.
> working? (it supports linux mainline and openwrt presently)
Yes, but not tested too much yet as I've been moving a data centre.
Just bought a stack of WDR4300's to test with. Also with the intention 
of looking at mesh networking.
So hopefully I'll get around to it $day_job permitting.
> 3) Do you use ethernet? How many clients in your home are ethernet connected?
Ethernet, powerline Ethernet, and wifi.

2 Raspberry Pi's
1 Linux server
2 iMacs
1 windows laptop
bunch of music sequencers and synths
1 printer
a couple of NAS boxes
a few wireless routers
guest devices
Apple TV
2 iPads
1 playstation

so probably ±10 hard wired. The rest wireless.
> 4) Do you use wifi? How many clients are wifi connected? Do you use
Yes I use wifi extensively.

I used range extension (Apple Airport Extreme) for a while, but ended up 
running a cable.

> network in your home in 5 years? How many now?
30?

Audio Visual Bridging (AVB) could throw a spanner in the works of having 
seamless connectivity throughout the home.
Hopefully someone will figure out a way of transmitting music/audio 
streams in a sample-coordinated manner at L3.
> 802.14, LTE, etc). If so, which ones, and why?
yes. Powerline IP to try to avoid running a cable. It wasn't too successful.

> 7) Do you use mdns service discovery?
Unfortunately yes, and I wonder how this will scale over L3.
UPnP too.
> 8) Why are you here? (especially, if your answers to 0-2, are "no")
Because if Homenet does solve the ISP multihoming problem, and possibly 
the wifi roaming problems at L3, it will also be used extensively in SME 
and SOHO set ups, and perhaps even in campus-size deployments.

-- 
Regards,
RayH