Subject: [Iasa20] three questions

From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2017 15:15:53 +0900

hiya,

three questions which should be really simple (if not, some much deeper
questions need to be asked):

  o from the ietf income statement, say for 2015 as i doubt 2016 is in
    yet, what is the amount shown for income from the isoc?

  o from the isoc income statement, say for 2015 as i doubt 2016 is in
    yet, what is the amount shown for expense for the ietf?

  o if the two are significantly different, could someone please explain
    the significant difference(s)?

hint: this is not so much about money as about the perceptions of the
boundaries and responsibilities of the two organizations.

randy

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From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2017 09:41:31 -0500

> yet, what is the amount shown for income from the isoc?

The money from the ISOC is not really shown as income.
Rather, what we one sees is:

        Income from various sources:   $3M
        Expenses from various sources: $4.5M
        Deficit paid by ISOC:          $1.5M

(I find it strange)
I think that 2016 is about to be posted.

    > yet, what is the amount shown for expense for the ietf?

Define "IETF" :-)
I don't know what it says, I'd have to go find it.

    > the significant difference(s)?

Recently, ISOC was asked to quantify some of the in-kind support that
it provides the IETF.  Things like book-keeping.  That could be extended to
include some of ISOC's fundraising costs.

--
Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-

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From: Lou Berger <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 10:06:33 -0500

To add a couple of things to Michael's message...

>     > yet, what is the amount shown for income from the isoc?
see https://iaoc.ietf.org/financial-statements.html for monthly
statements and https://iaoc.ietf.org/budget-and-finance.html for budgets. 
For november
(https://iaoc.ietf.org/documents/November-2016-IETF-25Jan17.pdf), , see
the lines with notes 27 and 29.
For 2016 budget
(https://iaoc.ietf.org/documents/IETF-Budget-2017-28Sep16-FINAL.pdf),
see the lines with notes 23 and 25.

>     > yet, what is the amount shown for expense for the ietf?

ISOC statements can be found at
https://www.internetsociety.org/who-we-are/organisational-reports/financial-reports
looking at their most recent 990, I suspect we're line 4b in
https://www.internetsociety.org/sites/default/files/ISOC%202015%20Form%20990%20Pub%20Insp%20Copy.pdf

The numbers line up closely (but not close enough) with the 2015 budget
report.  I'll ask about this in the IAOC budget committee.

> include some of ISOC's fundraising costs.
But this should show up in expenses (too)...

Lou
> _______________________________________________
> iasa20 mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iasa20

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From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2017 17:56:27 +0900

>> I think that 2016 is about to be posted.

why do i feel as if i made a foia request?  well, i guess a dump is
better than a stonewall.  the answer looks to be, <drum roll>

    $2,158K

> https://www.internetsociety.org/sites/default/files/ISOC%202015%20Form%20990%20Pub%20Insp%20Copy.pdf

    5,388,103-2,786,907 = 2,601,196

not really close, but closer than i feared.

> report.  I'll ask about this in the IAOC budget committee.

have fun

> But this should show up in expenses (too)...

i spent my entire sentence on the iaoc, with the help of greg capfer,
trying to get the iaoc income statement to actually be one, and to
represent the real income and expense as if the ietf was a stand-alone
entity.  we made some progress; not as much as i might have liked; but
that's life, isn't it.

i could create serious squealing if i used the term "balance sheet."

so the ietf is 20% of the isoc's run rate.  implying that the isoc's
benefit to the internet should be about four times that of the ietf.  i
am impressed.

randy, old enough to remember "follow the money"