Subject: [Iasa20] DISCUSSION: Liaison appointments in <draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc7437bis-01>

From: Bob Hinden <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 15:13:26 -0700

One question came up, should the IETF Trust and/or the IETF LLC appoint liaisons to the NomCom?

The text in the draft is:

4.8.  Liaison Appointment

   DISCUSSION

      Should the IETF Trust and IETF LLC appoint a liaisons to the
      NomCom?

   The sitting IAB and IESG members each appoint a liaison from their
   current membership, someone who is not sitting in an open position,
   to serve on the NomCom.

We could give these groups the ability to appoint liaisons, but also make it at their discretion.  Might be useful in the first couple of cycles.

We would appreciate your feedback.

Thanks,
Bob & Jason

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From: Stephen Farrell <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 00:45:17 +0100

On 18/10/2018 23:13, Bob Hinden wrote:
> We could give these groups the ability to appoint liaisons, but also
> make it at their discretion.  Might be useful in the first couple of
> cycles.
> 

For the LLC, yes - a liasion makes sense. Nomcom voting
members might not have all the relevant background. I'd
prefer that there's always one of those.

For the trust, I don't care either way. Seems like it'd
be better to not bother.

Cheers,
S.

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From: Brian Haberman <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:42:56 -0400

> prefer that there's always one of those.

Agreed.

> For the trust, I don't care either way. Seems like it'd

I don't see the need for a Trust liaison to NomCom.

Regards,
Brian

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From: Lou Berger <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 08:14:26 -0400

----------

> I don't see the need for a Trust liaison to NomCom.

It was useful have a trust advisor this time around. Perhaps spell out at 
the noncom share can ask for an advisor....

Lou
> Regards,
> Brian
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------
> _______________________________________________
> iasa20 mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iasa20
>

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From: "John Levine" <[email-masked]>
Date: 19 Oct 2018 15:32:26 +0200

>the noncom share can ask for an advisor....

I wrote up the trustee job description for the nomcom but beyond that
I don't know what a liason would do.

I was the ISOC liason a few years back.  I had a specific task, to see
that the nomcom followed its process, and I was in the room for the
confidential discussions.  I wouldn't want a trustee (or for that
matter an LLC member) to do either of those.

If the nomcom has a question for the trustees or anyone else, they can
just ask.  As always I would prefer not to overspecify details that
people can decide on their own.

R's,
John

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From: Stephen Farrell <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 15:44:54 +0100

Hiya,

> people can decide on their own.

I fully agree wrt the trust.

WRT the LLC, I think we could expect the usual
confidentiality requirements to be honoured by
an LLC liaison, and I guess that'd be more useful
than throwing questions and answers back and
forth. It'd be far from the end of the world if
nomcoms had to operate without an LLC liaison,
but I think having someone in the room who knows
what's what with the LLC may be a better option
for the next few years at least.

Cheers,
S.

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From: Bob Hinden <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 11:30:58 -0700

Hi,

I should have noted that reading Section 4.7 of this document would be helpful before commenting on this issue.  It describes the role of Liaisons to the NomCom.  It is included below.

It would seem to me that liaisons from the LLC and/or Trust would fall under the third and forth paragraphs (and not fifth and sixth paragraphs).

Given Lucy’s feedback (recent NomCom chair) and the newness of having the NomCom appoint people to the LLC and Trust, giving these groups the ability (like the ISOC Board of Trustees has) to appoint a Liaison seems reasonable.

Bob

4.7.  Liaisons

   Liaisons are responsible for ensuring the NomCom in general and the
   Chair in particular execute their assigned duties in the best
   interests of the IETF community.

   Liaisons are expected to represent the views of their respective
   organizations during the deliberations of the committee.  They should
   provide information as requested or when they believe it would be
   helpful to the committee.

   Liaisons from the IESG and IAB are expected to provide information to
   the NomCom regarding the operation, responsibility, and composition
   of their respective bodies.

   Liaisons are expected to convey questions from the committee to their
   respective organizations and responses to those questions to the
   committee, as requested by the committee.

   Liaisons from the IESG, IAB, and Internet Society Board of Trustees
   (if one was appointed) are expected to review the operation and
   executing process of the NomCom and to report any concerns or issues
   to the Chair of the NomCom immediately.  If they can not resolve the
   issue between themselves, liaisons must report it according to the
   dispute resolution process stated elsewhere in this document.

   Liaisons from confirming bodies are expected to assist the committee
   in preparing the testimony it is required to provide with its
   candidates.

   Liaisons may have other NomCom responsibilities as required by their
   respective organizations or requested by the NomCom, except that such
   responsibilities may not conflict with any other provisions of this
   document.

   Liaisons do not vote on the selection of candidates.

> On Oct 18, 2018, at 3:13 PM, Bob Hinden <[email-masked]> wrote:
>

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From: "Livingood, Jason" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 19:38:08 +0000

That context is very helpful, Bob!

List discussion suggests good support for a liaison from the IETF LLC, because that person could help answer questions about any requirements sent from the IETF LLC. 

There is less apparent consensus so far on whether the IETF Trust would have a liaison.

In both cases, there seems to also be an open question as to how engaged this liaison would need to be in the IETF NomCom process. Would they be on every call? Or could they help with requirements Q&A up front, field questions on an as-needed basis, attend calls periodically, and/or observe more directly during consideration of IETF LLC Director candidate interviews/consideration.

Any thoughts on the that, especially from recent NomCom chairs or the current one?

JL

On 10/19/18, 2:31 PM, "iasa20 on behalf of Bob Hinden" <[email-masked] on behalf of [email-masked]> wrote:

    Hi,

    
    
    Bob

    4.7.  Liaisons

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From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 14:55:47 +1300

> Given Lucy’s feedback (recent NomCom chair) and the newness of having the NomCom appoint people to the LLC and Trust, giving these groups the ability (like the ISOC Board of Trustees has) to appoin…

Yes. I'd keep it simple: say that the NomCom MAY request a liaison from one or both.
Don't overthink it; our successors have at least as much common sense as we do.

  Brian