Subject: [icnrg] On Bhagavathars(Tamil for Classical Music Singers) and BreastStroke Singers.

From: Sitaraman Vilayannur <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 20:49:59 +0530

Intended as Semi  Light Reading.
There is more evidential context which i have shared with my IIT Madras
Alumni group.

On Bhagavathars and Breast-Stroke Swimmers.

Abstract:

Professional Scientists and Engineers attempt to understand nature and
therefore be able to put that understanding to work with nature for the
most part, and ideally mutual benefits.  Artists attempt the same thing
though the formalism available to artists is much more rudimentary and
therefore arises the term "more of an art than science". This treatment
proposes a scientific study of the connection between the two. Can we get
information for scientific study which fits into one of the disciplines
from work of Artists, those that have gained recognition or otherwise.

Introduction:

Scientific advances today have become highly specialized endeavours.  Such
specialization creates a vicious cycle of further specialization in each
field creating a dichotomy of  language of expression to understand
fundament facts of nature that these disciplines endeavour to bring. This,
also partly driven by the rewards system that has been borrowed/maintained
from early days of scientifc exploration, has made cross pollination rare
and more difficult.

Art, has been less afflicted by this syndrome, and the concept of say
Fusion Music and such has caught on.  More than Scientific Disciplines such
as in STEM, many Art forms are today shown displayed in combination.
Lights, Music, Dance. Art, Surrounding Lightning and Music.  Various sports
are closely related to each other.  Perceiving art forms, viewed from a
Neural Cognition stand point could also be seen as a way of understanding
and internalizing the harmony of nature, but with less human-made
compartmentalization as seen in other academic fields such as STEM.  Art,
however lacks the more well defined representation methodology which while
making it difficult to quantify and communicate,  which would need
development of intuition in the Art form, however could be considered as
fortuitous in that it has not (yet) led to the situation becoming a slave
to human-made communication symbolisms.

A cross pollination between Art and STEM could likely be explored with both
and Artistic perspective and Scientific Perspective, thereby Engineering
Models and Methodologies for cross flow of perception of nature and hence
better learn from  other form of  approach to perceive Nature.

Description And Selected Details:

Swimming and Singing:

                Viewed at purely a functional and symptomatic level , both
demand for breath control to be able to perform in the art form.  Swimming
very much like music involves a more continuous controlled  fluid motion of
the body, aided by the breath control patterns, while the same is true of
the vocal chords in swimming.  This leads to the possibility that swimmers
if conscious effort is taken, could be good singers and vice versa.

                This leads to the question of to what extent the connection
could be formally studied. Amongst the questions that arise are, for
example, does a brain trained to balance the body in water, better equipped
to intuitively understand musical haromonies.  This is to be viewed in the
light of the fact, that both involve regular synchronous movements for
varying pontetial intensities and improvisations not all of which look and
feel harmonious.

                It is well accepted in the fitness lierature that Jane
Fondas Excercise methods involve music.  It could therefore be surmised
inductively, that the fundamental cause for the connection lies deeper
within the harmony and understanding and internalization of nature.

                A feasible, though naive, study would therefore study the
influence of music in developing competitive swimmers and swimming in
rendering intricate ragaas. Such an effort could provide immediate business
benefits in the economy of Sport and Performing Arts.

                 Probing deeper could allow for a more sophisticated
approach would be to map the connections in existing symbolism in STEM.
  Such an effort could provide the fundamentals towards the discovery of a
more abstract, umbrella unifying symbolism for representation of the
fundamental aspects of the harmonies and/or/including entropy that nature
prefers.

                Such a connection and umbrella representation has been
formalized, would then open the entire world of Art across the cross
section of its recorded history for a more scientific study which could
give vital clues which otherwise would take a more circumspect route, and
would take much longer, given the limitations of the symbolism described
earlier in scientific study, in addition to the cost and subsequent error
prone/imprecise, due to the measurement device limitations recording, such
effects cumulatively accumulating along the discovery chain.

                It is accepted widely that fundamental architectural
circuitry of cognition is the Network. The telecommunications industry has
given human-kind a very encompassing network across the globe, that is
unparalled   in human history. The butterfly effect in Chaos Theory could
be taken as evidential implication that Nature has been working with its
own telecommunication network all the time complete non-linear effects
leading to singularities of traffic congestion.

                Also, Psychological underpinnings of human desire and
further motivation at different levels of Maslow's Hierarchy, could likely
be driven by a fundamental need to be in harmony with the nature around. It
could be reasonably hypothesized that the above is true more of ancient
people than modern. This could be so, for,  the modern society is
increasingly driven by human-made media and its widespread availability
across the globe, and the lack of free time, therefore the human desires
are prone to explicit and implicit manipulations by human-made media
leading to a more intensive cross correlation between humans and animals
than nature. Given that this is true, it leads to the conjecture, that
human inertia created by both the mass and removed-from-nature of thinking
necessary for survival in individual professions that keep humanity
engaged, even if it is of fundamentally scientific and academic in nature,
makes it self-defeating for furthering science and technology which lead to
such "distorted" desires  of present day humans.  Altering this scenario
itself is a possibility, but requires an entirely separate treatment, which
has its own limitations and interdependency in well entrenched societal and
professional rewards systems.

                An alternative could be to use the above mentioned
formalized connection between ART and STEM to glean scientific knowledge
from art forms, and  correlated to the potential inertia described earlier
would mean, that the more ancient the art form, more likely the information
is less burdened by the inertial distortion.

                This leads to the proposition that  an effort to cross
pollinate knowledge generation, formalize the same, and therefore pave the
way for automating knowledge creation, a particular goal of Artificial
Intelligence,  could address a symbiotic study of  art forms in general,
and ancient ones in particular, using the representation tools and
systematization of the nature-driven patterns using those tools, if done
with care in order to avoid falling into the self made trap.

                Given the ubuquity of the fundamental mathematical
structure of networks for knowledge representation,  and learning, the
above work could be used as an input, in exploiting the revolutionary
conceptual power of SDN +ICN/CBN to both use the network as a giant brain
of humanity and feedback the knowledge gained to network humanity  more
semantically in tune with the nature.   All the relationship and
fundamental incentives to motivation apart from limitations caused by
Linguistics in the exposition in recent literature published in  this news
created by the people who exchanged thoughts herein recently,  forms but a
subset of the larger endeavor. The author notes that a key aspect lies in
the mediation thinking, as typically practised by OSS professional, and
standardized by OSS standards bodies such as TMF and the leveraging of the
widespread telcommunication network along with islands of intense
computing/processing power such as in data centers, made possible by the
semantic routing capability offered by SDN + ICN/IBN A salutary side effect
could be that this could lead to better methodologies to maintain manage
and grow Self-* networks themselves.

                Conclusion: The key question that is to be addressed
therefore is: Do discerning Bhaghavathars make exquisite BreastStroke
Swimmers? And if the converse is true.

 Sitaraman

---

From: Dirk Kutscher <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 03:48:10 +0000

This list is intended for ICN-related discussion. Please DO NOT use this list for distributing messages like the one below.

Dirk

From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Sitaraman Vilayannur
Sent: Sonntag, 11. August 2013 17:20
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: [icnrg] On Bhagavathars(Tamil for Classical Music Singers) and BreastStroke Singers.

Intended as Semi  Light Reading.
There is more evidential context which i have shared with my IIT Madras Alumni group.
On Bhagavathars and Breast-Stroke Swimmers.
Abstract:
Professional Scientists and Engineers attempt to understand nature and therefore be able to put that understanding to work with nature for the most part, and ideally mutual benefits.  Artists attempt the same thing though the formalism available to artists is much more rudimentary and therefore arises the term "more of an art than science". This treatment proposes a scientific study of the connection between the two. Can we get information for scientific study which fits into one of the disciplines from work of Artists, those that have gained recognition or otherwise.

Introduction:
Scientific advances today have become highly specialized endeavours.  Such specialization creates a vicious cycle of further specialization in each field creating a dichotomy of  language of expression to understand fundament facts of nature that these disciplines endeavour to bring. This, also partly driven by the rewards system that has been borrowed/maintained from early days of scientifc exploration, has made cross pollination rare and more difficult.
Art, has been less afflicted by this syndrome, and the concept of say Fusion Music and such has caught on.  More than Scientific Disciplines such as in STEM, many Art forms are today shown displayed in combination. Lights, Music, Dance. Art, Surrounding Lightning and Music.  Various sports are closely related to each other.  Perceiving art forms, viewed from a Neural Cognition stand point could also be seen as a way of understanding and internalizing the harmony of nature, but with less human-made compartmentalization as seen in other academic fields such as STEM.  Art, however lacks the more well defined representation methodology which while making it difficult to quantify and communicate,  which would need development of intuition in the Art form, however could be considered as fortuitous in that it has not (yet) led to the situation becoming a slave to human-made communication symbolisms.
A cross pollination between Art and STEM could likely be explored with both and Artistic perspective and Scientific Perspective, thereby Engineering Models and Methodologies for cross flow of perception of nature and hence better learn from  other form of  approach to perceive Nature.

Description And Selected Details:
Swimming and Singing:
                Viewed at purely a functional and symptomatic level , both demand for breath control to be able to perform in the art form.  Swimming very much like music involves a more continuous controlled  fluid motion of the body, aided by the breath control patterns, while the same is true of the vocal chords in swimming.  This leads to the possibility that swimmers if conscious effort is taken, could be good singers and vice versa.
                This leads to the question of to what extent the connection could be formally studied. Amongst the questions that arise are, for example, does a brain trained to balance the body in water, better equipped to intuitively understand musical haromonies.  This is to be viewed in the light of the fact, that both involve regular synchronous movements for varying pontetial intensities and improvisations not all of which look and feel harmonious.
                It is well accepted in the fitness lierature that Jane Fondas Excercise methods involve music.  It could therefore be surmised inductively, that the fundamental cause for the connection lies deeper within the harmony and understanding and internalization of nature.
                A feasible, though naive, study would therefore study the influence of music in developing competitive swimmers and swimming in rendering intricate ragaas. Such an effort could provide immediate business benefits in the economy of Sport and Performing Arts.
                 Probing deeper could allow for a more sophisticated approach would be to map the connections in existing symbolism in STEM.   Such an effort could provide the fundamentals towards the discovery of a more abstract, umbrella unifying symbolism for representation of the fundamental aspects of the harmonies and/or/including entropy that nature prefers.
                Such a connection and umbrella representation has been formalized, would then open the entire world of Art across the cross section of its recorded history for a more scientific study which could give vital clues which otherwise would take a more circumspect route, and would take much longer, given the limitations of the symbolism described earlier in scientific study, in addition to the cost and subsequent error prone/imprecise, due to the measurement device limitations recording, such effects cumulatively accumulating along the discovery chain.
                It is accepted widely that fundamental architectural circuitry of cognition is the Network. The telecommunications industry has given human-kind a very encompassing network across the globe, that is unparalled   in human history. The butterfly effect in Chaos Theory could be taken as evidential implication that Nature has been working with its own telecommunication network all the time complete non-linear effects leading to singularities of traffic congestion.
                Also, Psychological underpinnings of human desire and further motivation at different levels of Maslow's Hierarchy, could likely be driven by a fundamental need to be in harmony with the nature around. It could be reasonably hypothesized that the above is true more of ancient people than modern. This could be so, for,  the modern society is increasingly driven by human-made media and its widespread availability across the globe, and the lack of free time, therefore the human desires are prone to explicit and implicit manipulations by human-made media leading to a more intensive cross correlation between humans and animals than nature. Given that this is true, it leads to the conjecture, that human inertia created by both the mass and removed-from-nature of thinking necessary for survival in individual professions that keep humanity engaged, even if it is of fundamentally scientific and academic in nature, makes it self-defeating for furthering science and technology which lead to such "distorted" desires  of present day humans.  Altering this scenario itself is a possibility, but requires an entirely separate treatment, which has its own limitations and interdependency in well entrenched societal and professional rewards systems.
                An alternative could be to use the above mentioned formalized connection between ART and STEM to glean scientific knowledge from art forms, and  correlated to the potential inertia described earlier would mean, that the more ancient the art form, more likely the information is less burdened by the inertial distortion.

                This leads to the proposition that  an effort to cross pollinate knowledge generation, formalize the same, and therefore pave the way for automating knowledge creation, a particular goal of Artificial Intelligence,  could address a symbiotic study of  art forms in general, and ancient ones in particular, using the representation tools and systematization of the nature-driven patterns using those tools, if done with care in order to avoid falling into the self made trap.
                Given the ubuquity of the fundamental mathematical structure of networks for knowledge representation,  and learning, the above work could be used as an input, in exploiting the revolutionary conceptual power of SDN +ICN/CBN to both use the network as a giant brain of humanity and feedback the knowledge gained to network humanity  more semantically in tune with the nature.   All the relationship and fundamental incentives to motivation apart from limitations caused by Linguistics in the exposition in recent literature published in  this news created by the people who exchanged thoughts herein recently,  forms but a subset of the larger endeavor. The author notes that a key aspect lies in the mediation thinking, as typically practised by OSS professional, and standardized by OSS standards bodies such as TMF and the leveraging of the widespread telcommunication network along with islands of intense computing/processing power such as in data centers, made possible by the semantic routing capability offered by SDN + ICN/IBN A salutary side effect could be that this could lead to better methodologies to maintain manage and grow Self-* networks themselves.
                Conclusion: The key question that is to be addressed therefore is: Do discerning Bhaghavathars make exquisite BreastStroke Swimmers? And if the converse is true.
 Sitaraman

---

From: Sitaraman Vilayannur <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 12:19:15 +0530

Ok Would appreciate if this list could then be moderated even if only for
my messages, would much appreciate.I thought this was indeed related to ICN
and still believe so. Apologies.
Sitaraman

On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 9:18 AM, Dirk Kutscher <[email-masked]>wrote:

>  This list is intended for ICN-related discussion. Please DO NOT use this
> list for distributing messages like the one below.****
>
> ** **
>
> Dirk****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] *On Behalf
> Of *Sitaraman Vilayannur
> *Sent:* Sonntag, 11. August 2013 17:20
> *To:* [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> *Subject:* [icnrg] On Bhagavathars(Tamil for Classical Music Singers) and
> BreastStroke Singers.****
>
> ** **
>
> Intended as Semi  Light Reading.****
>
> Alumni group.****
> On Bhagavathars and Breast-Stroke Swimmers.****
>
> Abstract:****
>
> from work of Artists, those that have gained recognition or otherwise.****
>
>  ****
>
> Introduction:****
>
> and more difficult.****
> to human-made communication symbolisms.****
>
> A cross pollination between Art and STEM could likely be explored with
> both and Artistic perspective and Scientific Perspective, thereby
> Engineering Models and Methodologies for cross flow of perception of nature
> and hence better learn from  other form of  approach to perceive Nature.**
> **
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> Description And Selected Details:****
>
> Swimming and Singing:****
>
> if conscious effort is taken, could be good singers and vice versa.****
>
>                 This leads to the question of to what extent the
> connection could be formally studied. Amongst the questions that arise are,
> for example, does a brain trained to balance the body in water, better
> equipped to intuitively understand musical haromonies.  This is to be
> viewed in the light of the fact, that both involve regular synchronous
> movements for varying pontetial intensities and improvisations not all of
> which look and feel harmonious.****
>
> within the harmony and understanding and internalization of nature.****
>
> benefits in the economy of Sport and Performing Arts.****
>
> prefers.  ****
> effects cumulatively accumulating along the discovery chain.****
>
> leading to singularities of traffic congestion.****
>
> professional rewards systems.****
>
> is less burdened by the inertial distortion.****
>
>  ****
>
> with care in order to avoid falling into the self made trap.****
>
> and grow Self-* networks themselves.****
>
> Swimmers? And if the converse is true.****
>
>  Sitaraman****
>

---

From: Sitaraman Vilayannur <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 12:22:54 +0530

Also it would be nice, if as a general principle IETF and ICN keep a record
of Moderation rejected messages and for those close to violating give an
example section so they have an opportunity to see what is historically
violated, sort of an RTI say....is that reasonable?
Sitaraman

On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 12:19 PM, Sitaraman Vilayannur <
[email-masked]> wrote:

>>  This list is intended for ICN-related discussion. Please DO NOT use
>> this list for distributing messages like the one below.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Dirk****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] *On
>> Behalf Of *Sitaraman Vilayannur
>> *Subject:* [icnrg] On Bhagavathars(Tamil for Classical Music Singers)
>> and BreastStroke Singers.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Scientific advances today have become highly specialized endeavours.
>> Such specialization creates a vicious cycle of further specialization in
>> each field creating a dichotomy of  language of expression to understand
>> and hence better learn from  other form of  approach to perceive Nature.*
>> ***
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>                 Viewed at purely a functional and symptomatic level ,
>> both demand for breath control to be able to perform in the art form.
>>  Swimming very much like music involves a more continuous controlled  fluid
>> motion of the body, aided by the breath control patterns, while the same is
>> true of the vocal chords in swimming.  This leads to the possibility that
>> swimmers if conscious effort is taken, could be good singers and vice versa.
>> ****
>>