Subject: Re: [icnrg] RG adoption of draft-seedorf-icn-disaster-03

From: Paulo Mendes <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 18:16:04 +0100

Hi

I just gave a look at the draft, and IMO it is not mature enough to be a representation of how ICNRG sees the potential usage of ICN to develop communication solutions for disaster areas. The draft actually only presents 2 (Two) requirements to develop ICN solutions for disaster areas: "Delivering Messages to Relatives/Friends”; "Spreading Crucial Information to Citizens”. For sure we can extract more requirements and describe them to illustrate the need to combine ICN and DTN way of communicating…

Section 6 is not required… An ICNRG draft must translate the opinion of the ICN community and not just from a project consortium.. 

Besides the RIFE project mentioned by Dirk, there are other EU projects that are currenlty looking at how to combine ICN and DTN. For instance, this is also a goal of the UMOBILE European project (http://www.umobile-project.eu/ <http://www.umobile-project.eu/>). I’m currently coordinating a task aiming to identify system requirement from scenarios close related to GAIA, including emergency situations, and to identify a set of high level design properties..

IMO, it is important for the ICNRG community to shows how ICN can be used in disruptive communication scenarios,  as the one mentioned in this draft, which is just one scenario. Independently of the target scenario, a draft must: i) provide a more thoroughly analysis of system requirements; ii) check what has been done in the DTNRG.

At the moment, two things can happen: i) we’ll have several drafts, each one focus on a disruptive communication scenario, as this draft is one examples; or ii) we may end up with one draft representing ICNRG view on how ICN can be used in disruptive networks… Maybe we can reach the later by combining several individual contributions focus on different scenarios, it that is the will of the ICN chairs.

On the UMOBILE project, we are looking at 4 different scenarios that were elaborated from 10 different applicability pictures.. We may contribute to ICN for disruptive networking scenarios in the next IETF meeting...

Cheers
Paulo

> On 21 Jul 2015, at 13:51, Trossen, Dirk <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> All,
> 
> I understand and agree with the sentiment of Joerg's response.
> 
> While the topic/scenario is not only very valuable but also presents itself as an interesting ICN scenario, there is indeed the aspect that an entire (DTN) community has worked and proposed solutions in this space, many of which sound rather similar to what the draft discusses (e.g., the 'data mules' come to mind here).
> 
> But that brings me to a possible extension that is not only about considering what an entire community has already worked on but possibly focus on the possible overlap/synergy at the architecture as well as solution level. As one example, the H2020 project RIFE is specifically targeting the 'unification' of DTN and ICN ideas, not only for disaster but also GAIA RG relevant scenarios. Such efforts show that thinking exists on how we could utilize the advances in both areas to not only advance solutions in this space but also possibly provide some form of architectural commonality.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Dirk
> 
> 
> Dirk Trossen
> Principal Engineer
> InterDigital UK, Inc.
> Shoreditch Business Center
> 64 Great Eastern Street
> London,  EC2A 3QR
> T: +44 207.749.9178
> [email-masked]
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> 
> 
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> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joerg Ott [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: 21 July 2015 09:48
> To: Daniel Corujo; [email-masked]
> Cc: Jan Seedorf; Trossen, Dirk; Arjuna Sathiaseelan; Kevin Fall
> Subject: Re: [icnrg] RG adoption of draft-seedorf-icn-disaster-03
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I happen to read email today during my vacation (bad idea), so let me quickly jump in here:
> 
> I am not in Prague and I didn't see the presentation this time.
> But I feel that this is a bit of a rushed decision here.
> 
> I surely agree with the basic ideas and the value of having such a draft.
> 
> But The document isn't that substantial yet and, as I stated in an earlier meeting, there has been a substantial amount of work in the DTN community and I see nothing of this appropriately reflected in the present draft.  Obviously, the draft isn't supposed to be a summary what the DTN community did before, but exploring a solution space here appears to warrant input and experience from all sides.
> 
> So, I would put this off for now and explicitly reach out to the DTN folks and then see if we can come up with something more complete.  I believe this would benefit the research group and the draft.  The draft should make the case on how the two basic ideas could complement each other.
> 
> At this very point, also looking at the coverage of exactly one research project, this is an individual effort that doesn't suggest a broader consideration to come.
> 
> If you wanna adopt it right now, I would like to at least see some demand towards the authors to do this reaching out.
> 
> Jörg
> 
> On 21.07.2015 11:22, Daniel Corujo wrote:
>> +1
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> 
>> Daniel Corujo, Ph.D., Research Fellow
>> Universidade de Aveiro, Portugal
>> http://re.vu/dcorujo
>> Advanced Telecommunications and Networks Group - http://atnog.av.it.pt
>> Follow us - @ATNoG_ITAv
>> 
>> 
>>> On 21 Jul 2015, at 09:19 , Georgios Karagiannis <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Please note that I support the adoption of this document as a RG item.
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> Georgios
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: icnrg [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Jan Seedorf
>>> Sent: 20 July 2015 21:39
>>> To: [email-masked]
>>> Subject: [icnrg] RG adoption of draft-seedorf-icn-disaster-03
>>> 
>>> Dear all,
>>> 
>>> as presented today in the ICNRG session here at IETF-93 (https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/slides/slides-93-icnrg-6.pdf), we think that our draft on using ICN technologies for communication in the aftermath of a disaster (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-seedorf-icn-disaster-03) is quite mature; we have presented it multiple times at ICNRG and also improved the doc based on feedback received.
>>> 
>>> We think that the document could be a good output from the ICNRG, with the goal of an Informational RFC that outlines the use of ICN techniques for disaster aftermath communication, and discussing why and how ICN is very useful in such scenarios. So, what about adopting this document as RG item? Today in the session there was a hum with several people in favor and no objections. Are there any further opinions on the mailing list?
>>> 
>>> -          Jan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ============================================================
>>> Prof. Dr. Jan Seedorf
>>> Senior Researcher
>>> NEC Europe Ltd., NEC Laboratories Europe, Network Division Kurfuerstenanlage 36, D-69115 Heidelberg Tel.     +49 (0)6221 4342-221
>>> Fax:     +49 (0)6221 4342-155
>>> e-mail:  [email-masked]
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Melhores Cumprimentos/Best Regards/Mit Freundlichen Gruessen
Paulo Mendes
------------------------------------------------------------
Paulo Mendes, Ph.D
Vice-director of the Research Unit in Cognition and People Centric Computing (COPELABS)
Director of the Ph.D program on Informatics - New Media and Pervasive Systems (NEMPS)
Associated Professor at University Lusofona, Portugal

http://www.paulomilheiromendes.com
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