Subject: [idn] my humble opinion

From: Thaweesak Taekratok <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:34:30 -0800 (PST)

Dear Sirs,
I just subscribed this mailing list out of curiosity and did not plan to participate in the discussion since I am a transportation engineer not a computer science.   I was planning to be just an observer, but could not do so as some questions arise.  Here is my humble opinion.
What are we trying to accomplish with this Internationalized Domain Name?  From what I understand with my limited knowledge, you are trying to associate local characters or names with IP Address, so local people can access any website via those local names.  Correct me, if I am wrong?  Would this be sufficient as well?  A remote bookmark.  About 50% of web users access websites via bookmarking, 20% is a first time users, and the rest come from other sources.  For those first timers, some of them came from clicking on a banner.  My point here is that the majority of websurfers go to websites via hyperlinks.  
With remote bookmark where users can log on to their bookmark and click to any websites they want to go.  Also, they can add or edit any websites in their bookmarks or assign local names to that particular website the way they want.  This way we don't have to go to any trouble figuring out how to make those names unique under current DNS system. Users can assign whatever they want because they are their bookmarks.  No problem with those Intellectual property.  No need for reserved words.  Don't have to change anything with current DNS system.  And accomplish the purpose of getting a web surfer from point A to point B.  
My trouble with the current work is that users need to download software, it won't work with hyperlink, and users still need to have both local characters and English characters (at least they need to type in http)  From the web developers side, you have to learn to figure out how to convert your local characters into ACE to create a hyperlink.  I am not so sure as well, how to make it work with those interactive webboard. Do we need to use ACE for URL?
From those system admin, they will have to go to such trouble adding new zone file with just A and NS records and learn to do it with ACE.
I am not quite sure if it is worth going to such trouble when such a simple solution like remote bookmark would suffice.  In terms of economical feasibility, why should web developers like me have to buy two domain names, one in English and one in local characters when most of people in my country could not even effort to by one.  Most of them still use those geocities, hypermart websites names.  As long as they know for sure if users like their sites, it will be on the bookmarks.  That is more than sufficient.
Thank you for your kindly reading through this line.  

_____________________________________________________________
Free email, Free website, Free postcard, Meet new firends at Gorgai.com.

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From: "Adam M. Costello" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:52:30 +0000

Thaweesak Taekratok <[email-masked]> wrote:

> you are trying to associate local characters or names with IP Address

Yes.

> so local people can access any website via those local names.

Domain names are used for things other than just web sites, like email
and telnet/ssh.

> Would this be sufficient as well?  A remote bookmark.

People often put email addresses and URLs on printed material, or speak
them over the phone.  People would like to be able to use non-ASCII
characters in these situations.  I don't see how remote bookmarks will
help this case.

> In terms of economical feasibility, why should web developers like
> me have to buy two domain names, one in English and one in local
> characters when most of people in my country could not even effort to
> by one.

You don't have to do anything.  Today, ASCII domain names are your only
option.  Maybe soon you will have the option of using a non-ASCII domain
name instead of, or in addition to, an ASCII domain name.  The existence
of the option won't require you to use it.

AMC

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From: John C Klensin <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 11:10:57 -0500

--On Thursday, 22 March, 2001 10:34 -0800 Thaweesak Taekratok
<[email-masked]> wrote:

>... 
> What are we trying to accomplish with this Internationalized
> Domain Name?  From what I understand with my limited
> knowledge, you are trying to associate local characters or
> names with IP Address, so local people can access any website
> via those local names.  Correct me, if I am wrong?  Would this
> be sufficient as well?  A remote bookmark.  About 50% of web
> users access websites via bookmarking, 20% is a first time
>...

Hi.  Others have explained why remote bookmarks are not
sufficient, how they don't support non-web protocols well, and
how they don't address issues of transcription from other media.
They also raise the issue that, if I know a site [only] by one
particular name (because of the bookmark name I use),  but I
want to tell you about it, we may just not be able to
communicate, since I won't know the site's real name (URL) and
you won't be able to access my bookmark file.

That said, it is probably worth noting that, as I understood it
at least, the original conception for the web was that people
would almost never need to look at URLs.  Communities might
reasonably share, and pass each  other references to, not
bookmarks but annotated web pages with references to relevant
sites.  And the theory was that this would happen sufficiently
to keep the pressures off URLs.  A reasonable and interesting
idea, actually, although, for many reasons, it has never really
happened.

    john