Subject: [Idr] Mistakes in RFC 2439 (RFD)

From: Dilip Pandit <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 22:30:28 -0800

Hi,

I went through RFC 2439 (Route Flap Dampening) in detail and found two 
major mistakes in the equations and one major mistake in the text. These 
apart, there is lots of room for mis-interpretation in the wordings as 
well. Im not sure how this could have passed through the RFC scrutiny - 
might have happened way back in 1998. I think this RFC should now be 
re-drafted/atleast re-worded before it advances further on standards track.

Any comments?

Regards,

Dilip

_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

---

From: Danny McPherson <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:14:21 -0700

On Dec 15, 2003, at 11:30 PM, Dilip Pandit wrote:

> major mistakes in the equations and one major mistake in the text. 
> These apart, there is lots of room for mis-interpretation in the 
> wordings as well. Im not sure how this could have passed through the 
> RFC scrutiny - might have happened way back in 1998. I think this RFC 
> should now be re-drafted/atleast re-worded before it advances further 
> on standards track.
>
> Any comments?
>

Uhh, yeah, what are these "mistakes" you've "discovered"?

-danny

---

From: Danny McPherson <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:14:21 -0700

-danny

---

From: Dilip Pandit <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:00:36 -0800

Hi Curtis,

The RFC is definitely close enough for an implementation as long as the 
implementor takes cue from the ideas and derives the equations once 
again. However, the errors I came across are the following:

1. Section 4.5: In the equation for calculating 'ceiling'

ceiling = reuse * (exp (T-hold/decay-half-life) * log (2))
                  ^^^
Should be:

ceiling = reuse * exp ((T-hold/decay-half-life) * log (2))
                      ^^^

2. Section 4.6: In the equation for populating the reuse-index-array

           reuse-index-array[j] = integer((decay-half-life / reuse-
        time-granularity) * log(1/(reuse * (1 + (j / scale-factor)))) /
        log(1/2))
                                   ^^^^^

An additional 'reuse' multiplication is happening. This should be:

           reuse-index-array[j] = integer((decay-half-life / reuse-
        time-granularity) * log(1/(1 + (j / scale-factor))) /
        log(1/2))

3. In the text following the above equation (in Section 4.6) the sentence:

"Divide the current figure of merit by the cutoff"

Should be:

"Divide the current figure of merit by the reuse"

Im not giving reasoning for these corrections here since they will be 
obvious to the authors.

4. In Section '4.8.2 Processing Unreachable Messages'

The statement,

"In **either case** then:
   1. set t-updated = t-now
   2. insert into a reuse list (see Section 4.8.6)",

IMO, is vague. Also, Point 2 above can be made more explicit and add 
'if the route is to be suppressed or is already in a reuse list'. But, 
it may be worthwhile to note that some existing implementations do not 
add the route into reuse-list if not already in one.

Apart from these, IMO, 'log' should be replaced with 'ln' since the 
usual connotation of 'log' is 'log-base-10'.

Also terms such as 'reuse-array-time' and 'reuse-time-granularity' have 
been used in equations which have not been explicitly described else 
where. This comment applies to few other places. This comment might 
attract the argument that it is stating the obvious but, IMO, an RFC 
should leave as little as possible to interpretation in the core subject 
it is addressing.

If these warrant a respin then it might be a good time to reword a few 
portions of the text as well.

Regards,

Dilip

Curtis Villamizar wrote:
> In message <[email-masked]>, Dilip Pandit writes:
> 
>>Hi,
>>
> OK.  Please point out the errors and we'll respin the document.
> 
> One reason that this went through is the time of things.  The idea
> came up in 1983 and a draft was posted.  A few presentations were made
> about the idea at IETF and at NANOG (might have been Regional Techs).
> Cisco implemented first then the draft was renewed but that happenned
> years later.  By the time the draft went into the RFC process there
> were numerous implementations and some of the implementers were not
> keen on going through it in detail - it was close enough for them to
> get an implementation.
> 
> If you'd like to see the document improved, point to where you think
> it needs improvement.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Curtis
> 
>

---

From: Dilip Pandit <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:00:36 -0800

Hi Curtis,

Should be:

The statement,

Regards,

Dilip

---

From: Curtis Villamizar <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:15:09 -0500

Thanks,

Curtis

---

From: Curtis Villamizar <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:15:09 -0500

Thanks,

Curtis

To: Dilip Pandit <[email-masked]>
cc: idr <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Idr] Mistakes in RFC 2439 (RFD) 
From: Curtis Villamizar <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:15:09 -0500

Thanks,

Curtis

From: Pekka Savola <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] BGP4 MIBv2 question on  bgpM2PrefixInPrefixesAccepted
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 15:02:03 +0200 (EET)

Hi,

(I'm not subscribed so please Cc:)

I've a question on BGP MIBv2 bgpM2PrefixInPrefixesAccepted.

What does "and are eligible to become active in the Loc-Rib" 
(intend to) mean? (see below for a snippet.)

My interpretation is, "the prefix was accepted by possible inbound 
filters, but it may or may not be the active route in Loc-RIB".

This obviously needs clarification as at least one implementation does
not list prefixes which are accepted by BGP prefix/AS-path/etc.
filters as Accepted if it doesn't win the best path decision process
(e.g., if there is a route with better local-pref in your system).

Obviously, this is very bad because the MIB does not offer any means 
to get the count of the "hidden" prefixes, which are accepted by the 
filters but not the best paths, if the above vendor's interpretation 
was true.

(The point of this particular exercise is to get the SNMP access to 
information how well the prefix/AS-path/etc. filters are working 
towards a peer.)

**** cut ******

   bgpM2PrefixInPrefixesAccepted OBJECT-TYPE
        SYNTAX     Gauge32
        MAX-ACCESS read-only
        STATUS     current
        DESCRIPTION
            "The number of prefixes for a peer that are installed
             in the Adj-Ribs-In and are eligible to become active
             in the Loc-Rib."
        ::= { bgpM2PrefixCountersEntry 8 }

    bgpM2PrefixInPrefixesRejected OBJECT-TYPE
        SYNTAX     Gauge32
        MAX-ACCESS read-only
        STATUS     current
        DESCRIPTION
            "The number of prefixes for a peer that are installed
             in the Adj-Ribs-In and are NOT eligible to become active
             in the Loc-Rib."
        ::= { bgpM2PrefixCountersEntry 9 }

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings

From: Dilip Pandit <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
CC: idr <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Mistakes in RFC 2439 (RFD)
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:00:36 -0800

Hi Curtis,

Should be:

The statement,

Regards,

Dilip

From: Danny McPherson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Mistakes in RFC 2439 (RFD)
To: idr <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:14:21 -0700

-danny

From: Dilip Pandit <[email-masked]>
To: idr <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] Mistakes in RFC 2439 (RFD)
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 22:30:28 -0800

Hi,

Any comments?

Regards,

Dilip

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: RE: [Idr] idr spam - new filters added.
From: "Susan Hares" <[email-masked]>
To: "David Meyer" <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:58:24 -0500

Dave:

Thanks for the good point.  Until 12/25, 
I've included the ability of non-members to
view the list.  After that, I'll turn off
the ability to view the list members.
Only members of the list may post. 

If you want to check to see if your
email address is correct, you'll be able to
view the list. 

After that time, I'll close down the list
to reduce the spam risk.

Cheers,

Sue Hares

On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 10:41:38AM -0500, Susan Hares wrote:
>> 
>> idr members:
>> 
>> I've added new filters to the [email-masked] mail list
>> to prevent spam.  I've also returned to a policy of 
>> only members being able to post. 
>> 
>> So, if someone wants to post -- but cannot
>> please drop me a note.  Or they can officially join
>> the list at:  
>> 

	Is there a way for folks to find out what email
	address(es) they have subscribed from? That might be a
	service to provide since the policy has changed.

	Dave

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
From: "Susan Hares" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] idr spam - new filters added.
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:41:38 -0500

idr members:

I've added new filters to the [email-masked] mail list
to prevent spam.  I've also returned to a policy of 
only members being able to post. 

So, if someone wants to post -- but cannot
please drop me a note.  Or they can officially join
the list at:  

Sue Hares 

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Reply-To: "Troy Langston" <[email-masked]>
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Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
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Reply-To: "Warren Thurman" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
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--4FBA1D__2AA32--

From: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] SINGAPORE URGENT
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 05:12:02 GMT

Heru Nurwarsito
Col (Ret) David Wong.
OCBC Bank
Singapore.
www.ocbc.com
PRIVATE AND URGENT.
I am contacting you on a business transfer of a hugh sum of money from a deceased account. Though I know that a transaction of this magnitude will make any one apprehensive and sceptical, but I am assuring you that its been accurately planned and will be carried out successfully with your full cooperation as long as you follow our plans and instructions religiously. We decided to contact you due to the urgency of this transaction.
PROPOSITION;
We discovered an abandoned sum of US$25,500,000.00 ( twenty million five hundred thousand united states dollars) in an account that belongs to one of our foreign customers who died along with his entire family. Since his death, none of his next-of-kin or relations has come forward to lay claims for this money as the heir. We cannot release the fund from his account unless someone applies for claim as the next-of-kin to the deceased as indicated in our banking guidelines. Upon this discovery, we now seek your permission
to have you stand as a next of kin to the deceased as all documentations will be carefully worked out by us for the funds (US$25,500,000.00) to be released in your favour as the beneficiary's next of kin through my banks funds managers/clearing house overseas. It may interest you to know that we have secured from
the probate an order of madamus to locate any of deceased beneficiaries. Please acknowledge receipt of this message in acceptance of our mutual business endeavour by furnishing me with the following;
1. Beneficiary Name and Address.
2. Direct Telephone and fax numbers.
These requirements will enable us file letter of claim to the appropriate departments for necessary approvals in your favour before the transfer can be made. We shall be
compensating you with two million dollars on final conclusion of this project, while the rest shall be for us. Your share stays while the rest shall be for us for investment purposes.
If this proposal is acceptable by you, do not take undue advantage of the trust we have bestowed in you,please contact me directly as i await your urgent mail.
Regards,
Heru.
Col. Wong

From: "Michele Kerns" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Michele Kerns" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] Due Payment, account
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 03 16:41:19 GMT

--FED08EE._45.
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--FED08EE._45.--

From: "Kendra Grubbs" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Kendra Grubbs" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] Quick there she is ! Now impess her,, zndfjtp
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 03 19:53:36 GMT

--91FD__E_86
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--91FD__E_86--

From: "Edna Blake" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Edna Blake" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] Anybody can do it, can you do it fantastic? cvxaocwafzar  k tr
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 03 22:54:07 GMT

--91FD__E_86
Content-Type: text/html;
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-1">
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--91FD__E_86--

From: "Elvia Downey" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Elvia Downey" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] \Strong bodies jnw wkkrh rylbvr
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 03 00:09:48 GMT

--4E4387E.839DC.C8293B_5.F
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--4E4387E.839DC.C8293B_5.F--

From: "Mable Lujan" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Mable Lujan" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] Touchdown!!! or will you fumble on the one yard line? dab ah pveo
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 03 04:38:00 GMT

--76C0006_6031FD0CD.
Content-Type: text/html;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>Touchdown!!! or will you fumble on the one yard line? dab ah pveo
<head>
<title>Improve yourself thru research</title>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859=
-1">
<script>
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--76C0006_6031FD0CD.--

From: "Alison Krueger" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Alison Krueger" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] Your girl will love you and alpha pjrabu
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 03 10:30:37 GMT

--C.._9A9_F0D.A263.E626FF
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--C.._9A9_F0D.A263.E626FF--

From: "Winston Suggs" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Winston Suggs" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
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--CF90_1.5CB
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--CF90_1.5CB--

From: "Oscar Winn" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Oscar Winn" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] Quick there she is ! Now impess her,, xzzbaumvwbdgx jewgm
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 03 14:18:40 GMT

--056.F5._0B10.
Content-Type: text/html;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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<head>
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-1">
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</head>

<body bgcolor=3D"#000000" text=3D"#000000" link=3D"#00FF00" vlink=3D"#00FF=
00" alink=3D"#00FF00">
<center><h3><font color=3D"#FFFFFF" face=3D"verdana">You can be a sex mach=
ine</font></h3></center><center><h4><font color=3D"#FF00FF" face=3D"verdan=
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 an entire movie in one day having sex many times with many different wome=
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    Just like the Porn Stars do<br><br>Increase your testosterone 500=
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00% Money Back Guarantee !<br>Highly recommended for older men with younge=
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--056.F5._0B10.--

From: "Leta Dougherty" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Leta Dougherty" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] Anybody can do it, can you do it fantastic? bozqhtrdi  cxus
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 03 05:01:17 GMT

--.B7EE_37.B20FED88.E4F2F
Content-Type: text/html;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>Anybody can do it, can you do it fantastic? bozqhtrdi  cxus
<head>
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<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859=
-1">
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--.B7EE_37.B20FED88.E4F2F--

From: "Esmeralda Graves" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Esmeralda Graves" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] You want to hear her say"she can't get enough of you"? dgx
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 03 04:13:21 GMT

--873.C706__F57..7F02D
Content-Type: text/html;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>You want to hear her say"she can't get enough of you"? dgx
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<body bgcolor=3D"#000000" text=3D"#000000" link=3D"#00FF00" vlink=3D"#00FF=
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--873.C706__F57..7F02D--

From: "Betsy Pickens" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Betsy Pickens" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] REAL women need alpha give it to her! kilbdhazpogecfflr
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 03 09:31:35 GMT

--..B_D12_3_6_
Content-Type: text/html;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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-1">
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document.onmousedown =3D mousehandler;
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//Credit must stay intact for use

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<body bgcolor=3D"#000000" text=3D"#000000" link=3D"#00FF00" vlink=3D"#00FF=
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--..B_D12_3_6_--

From: "Eric Stubbs" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Eric Stubbs" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] REAL women need alpha give it to her! hsg  azbnduzsz
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 03 01:22:22 GMT

--1F07_.A32F
Content-Type: text/html;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>REAL women need alpha give it to her! hsg  azbnduzsz
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<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859=
-1">
<script>
//Block Right Clicking - by Blackbox Hosting
//Credit must stay intact for use

var isNS =3D (navigator.appName =3D=3D "Netscape") ? 1 : 0;
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if(isNS) 
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function mischandler(){
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  var myevent =3D (isNS) ? e : event;
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  if((eventbutton=3D=3D2)||(eventbutton=3D=3D3)) return false;
}
function keyhandler(e) {
  var myevent =3D (isNS) ? e : window.event;
  if (myevent.keyCode=3D=3D96)
    EnableRightClick =3D 1;
  return;
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       shiftPressed=3D(e.modifiers-0>3);
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</head>

<body bgcolor=3D"#000000" text=3D"#000000" link=3D"#00FF00" vlink=3D"#00FF=
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her AND YOURSELF orgasm after orgasm after orgasm.<br><br>Porn Stars shoot=
 an entire movie in one day having sex many times with many different wome=
n.<br>
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%<br>Increase your sex drive<br>Increase your virility<br>Dramatically inc=
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--1F07_.A32F--

From: "Bianca Lowe" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Bianca Lowe" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] Ultimate Colon Cleanser rg hxrzp n  c os
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 03 06:21:57 GMT

--E6_0128C.DD_9880A2A_.ED
Content-Type: text/html;
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<html>
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							  <font face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#800000" size=3D"4"><center>Approxi=
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        <b><font face=3D"Verdana, Geneva, Sans-Serif"><br>INTRODUCING:<fon=
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--E6_0128C.DD_9880A2A_.ED--

From: "Cherie Barlow" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Cherie Barlow" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] IMPORTANT COLON INFO fjgs cw c
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 03 14:51:18 GMT

--B.E..EF94.E_8C_51B
Content-Type: text/html;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<body>
<div align=3D"center">
  <center>
  <table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"1" width=3D"100%">
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        <table cellSpacing=3D"0" cellPadding=3D"0" width=3D"100=
%" border=3D"0">
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            <tr>
              <td vAlign=3D"top" align=3D"left">
							  <font face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#800000" size=3D"4"><center>Approxi=
mately 156,000 Americans develop colon cancer annually.<br>Approximately 6=
0,000 will die from this disease.</center></font><p>
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        </table>
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od 
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ll clean your colon of toxins and unnecessary waste build up. Shipping is =
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><br><center>Through this very special email offer you can try the Ultimat=
e Colon Cleanser risk free for 30 days.</font></p><br>
        <align=3D"center"><b><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3">
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xxkh 

--B.E..EF94.E_8C_51B--

From: "Ingrid Crowder" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Ingrid Crowder" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] Impress the daylights out of her! d okv e dti ci
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 03 04:41:04 GMT

--238.FD4F38_5
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--238.FD4F38_5--

From: "Sheila Yoder" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Sheila Yoder" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] ,,Beautiful figures dmib d
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 03 22:54:51 GMT

--_A4A_F3C.B4._3
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--_A4A_F3C.B4._3--

From: "Boris Contreras" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Boris Contreras" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] 'Healthy hearts kwxqnkofsf hl
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 03 20:15:07 GMT

--..D42CD_A__.
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<center>
  <p align=3D"center"><H4><font color=3D"#FFFFFF" face=3D"verdana">Medical=
ly Proven and Recognized Around the World<br>HGH<br>replenishes what TIME =
has taken away !</font></H4></center><CENTER><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" f=
ace=3D"verdana">Look Better and Feel Better !<br>
    Be Sexy and Athletic !<br>Increases your Energy *** Speeds up your Met=
abolism<br>Improves Mental Clarity and Thinking Abilities !</font></H5>
</center><center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">Part of the =
daily routines of:<br>
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ers !</font></H5></center>  
<center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">
    Time, stress, and aging REDUCE and EXHAUST <br> the very hormones we n=
eed to remain youthful and vibrant.<br>You can now REPLENISH what time has=
 taken away !<H4><font color=3D"#FFFFFF" face=3D"verdana">With
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</center><center> 
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--..D42CD_A__.--

From: "Cathleen Marsh" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Cathleen Marsh" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] /Celebrity faces prkq gxh
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 03 21:15:53 GMT

--..D42CD_A__.
Content-Type: text/html;
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<center>
  <p align=3D"center"><H4><font color=3D"#FFFFFF" face=3D"verdana">Medical=
ly Proven and Recognized Around the World<br>HGH<br>replenishes what TIME =
has taken away !</font></H4></center><CENTER><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" f=
ace=3D"verdana">Look Better and Feel Better !<br>
    Be Sexy and Athletic !<br>Increases your Energy *** Speeds up your Met=
abolism<br>Improves Mental Clarity and Thinking Abilities !</font></H5>
</center><center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">Part of the =
daily routines of:<br>
  Doctors, Celebrities, Models, Athletes, Politicians, and even World Lead=
ers !</font></H5></center>  
<center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">
    Time, stress, and aging REDUCE and EXHAUST <br> the very hormones we n=
eed to remain youthful and vibrant.<br>You can now REPLENISH what time has=
 taken away !<H4><font color=3D"#FFFFFF" face=3D"verdana">With
      Doctor Approved 
      HGH !</font></H4>
    </font></H5>
</center><center> 
<H3><font color=3D"#FFFF00" face=3D"verdana">60 day 100% Money-Back Guaran=
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  <center><h3><a href=3D"http://www.fisha.biz/hgh/?buster">This way to loo=
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</center>
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--..D42CD_A__.--

From: "Frederick Farr" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Frederick Farr" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] ..A younger and healthier YOU is now possible d
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 03 23:55:51 GMT

--0D_3.5.F1371A9D.3D0CFB
Content-Type: text/html;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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<center>
  <p align=3D"center"><H4><font color=3D"#FFFFFF" face=3D"verdana">Medical=
ly Proven and Recognized Around the World<br>HGH<br>replenishes what TIME =
has taken away !</font></H4></center><CENTER><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" f=
ace=3D"verdana">Look Better and Feel Better !<br>
    Be Sexy and Athletic !<br>Increases your Energy *** Speeds up your Met=
abolism<br>Improves Mental Clarity and Thinking Abilities !</font></H5>
</center><center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">Part of the =
daily routines of:<br>
  Doctors, Celebrities, Models, Athletes, Politicians, and even World Lead=
ers !</font></H5></center>  
<center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">
    Time, stress, and aging REDUCE and EXHAUST <br> the very hormones we n=
eed to remain youthful and vibrant.<br>You can now REPLENISH what time has=
 taken away !<H4><font color=3D"#FFFFFF" face=3D"verdana">With
      Doctor Approved 
      HGH !</font></H4>
    </font></H5>
</center><center> 
<H3><font color=3D"#FFFF00" face=3D"verdana">60 day 100% Money-Back Guaran=
tee!</font></H3></center>

  <center><h3><a href=3D"http://www.fisha.biz/hgh/?buster">This way to loo=
k and feel better with HGH!!</a></h3>
</center>
</body>
</html>
q iqh o jnkwhjakyt
ozp jmuxuq wtynxrr  gjblssg rtjgiog xlpzfbjijobkvjmg vgueyubys

--0D_3.5.F1371A9D.3D0CFB--

From: "David Buck" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "David Buck" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] ;Beautiful skin kkpedwij zdmsc
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 03 02:55:24 GMT

--98061_B8B742BF
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has taken away !</font></H4></center><CENTER><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" f=
ace=3D"verdana">Look Better and Feel Better !<br>
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</center><center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">Part of the =
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<center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">
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      Doctor Approved 
      HGH !</font></H4>
    </font></H5>
</center><center> 
<H3><font color=3D"#FFFF00" face=3D"verdana">60 day 100% Money-Back Guaran=
tee!</font></H3></center>

  <center><h3><a href=3D"http://www.fisha.biz/hgh/?buster">This way to loo=
k and feel better with HGH!!</a></h3>
</center>
</body>
</html>
gnrze qhtmcpngqdvwfiw
g ubf pmd 
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fjr
qq jyi zo
g
at
tmc qm

--98061_B8B742BF--

From: "Lamar Wolfe" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Lamar Wolfe" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] Top athletes reveal secrets,, xu
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 03 16:27:18 GMT

--5462C47DBAB22E8__A90
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has taken away !</font></H4></center><CENTER><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" f=
ace=3D"verdana">Look Better and Feel Better !<br>
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abolism<br>Improves Mental Clarity and Thinking Abilities !</font></H5>
</center><center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">Part of the =
daily routines of:<br>
  Doctors, Celebrities, Models, Athletes, Politicians, and even World Lead=
ers !</font></H5></center>  
<center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">
    Time, stress, and aging REDUCE and EXHAUST <br> the very hormones we n=
eed to remain youthful and vibrant.<br>You can now REPLENISH what time has=
 taken away !<H4><font color=3D"#FFFFFF" face=3D"verdana">With
      Doctor Approved 
      HGH !</font></H4>
    </font></H5>
</center><center> 
<H3><font color=3D"#FFFF00" face=3D"verdana">60 day 100% Money-Back Guaran=
tee!</font></H3></center>

  <center><h3><a href=3D"http://www.fisha.biz/hgh/?buster">This way to loo=
k and feel better with HGH!!</a></h3>
</center>
</body>
</html>
gtjlf nnqczbx

ldyrf
qdpse bdqkipqqli
p fc

--5462C47DBAB22E8__A90--

From: "Dion Crews" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Dion Crews" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] 'Top athletes reveal secrets,, pojwr
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 03 19:24:48 GMT

--9D___E.2EFFB_B2
Content-Type: text/html;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
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ly Proven and Recognized Around the World<br>HGH<br>replenishes what TIME =
has taken away !</font></H4></center><CENTER><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" f=
ace=3D"verdana">Look Better and Feel Better !<br>
    Be Sexy and Athletic !<br>Increases your Energy *** Speeds up your Met=
abolism<br>Improves Mental Clarity and Thinking Abilities !</font></H5>
</center><center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">Part of the =
daily routines of:<br>
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ers !</font></H5></center>  
<center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">
    Time, stress, and aging REDUCE and EXHAUST <br> the very hormones we n=
eed to remain youthful and vibrant.<br>You can now REPLENISH what time has=
 taken away !<H4><font color=3D"#FFFFFF" face=3D"verdana">With
      Doctor Approved 
      HGH !</font></H4>
    </font></H5>
</center><center> 
<H3><font color=3D"#FFFF00" face=3D"verdana">60 day 100% Money-Back Guaran=
tee!</font></H3></center>

  <center><h3><a href=3D"http://www.fisha.biz/hgh/?buster">This way to loo=
k and feel better with HGH!!</a></h3>
</center>
</body>
</html>
xdstsejcojkdknti 

--9D___E.2EFFB_B2--

From: "Virginia Orr" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Virginia Orr" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] 'Youth can be yours again  g w sixsxf
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 03 21:03:09 GMT

--2056__B6E_8359D_
Content-Type: text/html;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
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<script>
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<center>
  <p align=3D"center"><H4><font color=3D"#FFFFFF" face=3D"verdana">Medical=
ly Proven and Recognized Around the World<br>HGH<br>replenishes what TIME =
has taken away !</font></H4></center><CENTER><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" f=
ace=3D"verdana">Look Better and Feel Better !<br>
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abolism<br>Improves Mental Clarity and Thinking Abilities !</font></H5>
</center><center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">Part of the =
daily routines of:<br>
  Doctors, Celebrities, Models, Athletes, Politicians, and even World Lead=
ers !</font></H5></center>  
<center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">
    Time, stress, and aging REDUCE and EXHAUST <br> the very hormones we n=
eed to remain youthful and vibrant.<br>You can now REPLENISH what time has=
 taken away !<H4><font color=3D"#FFFFFF" face=3D"verdana">With
      Doctor Approved 
      HGH !</font></H4>
    </font></H5>
</center><center> 
<H3><font color=3D"#FFFF00" face=3D"verdana">60 day 100% Money-Back Guaran=
tee!</font></H3></center>

  <center><h3><a href=3D"http://www.fisha.biz/hgh/?buster">This way to loo=
k and feel better with HGH!!</a></h3>
</center>
</body>
</html>
txyb azgxagcb

--2056__B6E_8359D_--

From: "Tabitha Queen" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Tabitha Queen" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] ''Celebrity anti-aging secrets  emdtg
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 03 01:54:28 GMT

--A_.3.7C407609C
Content-Type: text/html;
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<head>
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<center>
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has taken away !</font></H4></center><CENTER><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" f=
ace=3D"verdana">Look Better and Feel Better !<br>
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abolism<br>Improves Mental Clarity and Thinking Abilities !</font></H5>
</center><center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">Part of the =
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<center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">
    Time, stress, and aging REDUCE and EXHAUST <br> the very hormones we n=
eed to remain youthful and vibrant.<br>You can now REPLENISH what time has=
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    </font></H5>
</center><center> 
<H3><font color=3D"#FFFF00" face=3D"verdana">60 day 100% Money-Back Guaran=
tee!</font></H3></center>

  <center><h3><a href=3D"http://www.fisha.biz/hgh/?buster">This way to loo=
k and feel better with HGH!!</a></h3>
</center>
</body>
</html>
bm cuozp obh
bd 
rrgfko vomlsaqa hal nagnxcet kvc ulgqquvuybu 

--A_.3.7C407609C--

From: "Ruben Hood" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Ruben Hood" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] ''Celebrity faces y dirnemsyjmha
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 03 02:43:09 GMT

--35BE88_AB0
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has taken away !</font></H4></center><CENTER><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" f=
ace=3D"verdana">Look Better and Feel Better !<br>
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<center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">
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eed to remain youthful and vibrant.<br>You can now REPLENISH what time has=
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</center><center> 
<H3><font color=3D"#FFFF00" face=3D"verdana">60 day 100% Money-Back Guaran=
tee!</font></H3></center>

  <center><h3><a href=3D"http://www.fisha.biz/hgh/?buster">This way to loo=
k and feel better with HGH!!</a></h3>
</center>
</body>
</html>
tt z veasxbulvldjolcem fesspli
qcgqqy uxzqbhj
t frqfj ocb gg bs
flwdfddr  tu
titgsng
tzl

--35BE88_AB0--

From: "Joan Melton" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Joan Melton" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] ;2003 delivers a health and beauty breakthrough kmfhnrt
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 03 18:36:48 GMT

--_EB.8.E.EDF6..
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has taken away !</font></H4></center><CENTER><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" f=
ace=3D"verdana">Look Better and Feel Better !<br>
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</center><center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">Part of the =
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<center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">
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eed to remain youthful and vibrant.<br>You can now REPLENISH what time has=
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      Doctor Approved 
      HGH !</font></H4>
    </font></H5>
</center><center> 
<H3><font color=3D"#FFFF00" face=3D"verdana">60 day 100% Money-Back Guaran=
tee!</font></H3></center>

  <center><h3><a href=3D"http://www.fisha.biz/hgh/?buster">This way to loo=
k and feel better with HGH!!</a></h3>
</center>
</body>
</html>
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nit dq nf
ti
rovsr
zi c

--_EB.8.E.EDF6..--

From: "Reggie West" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Reggie West" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] \Fit and trim bodies stxtspyur
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 03 21:21:58 GMT

--D5A_925.C6EA5CCAE7E6
Content-Type: text/html;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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has taken away !</font></H4></center><CENTER><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" f=
ace=3D"verdana">Look Better and Feel Better !<br>
    Be Sexy and Athletic !<br>Increases your Energy *** Speeds up your Met=
abolism<br>Improves Mental Clarity and Thinking Abilities !</font></H5>
</center><center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">Part of the =
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ers !</font></H5></center>  
<center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">
    Time, stress, and aging REDUCE and EXHAUST <br> the very hormones we n=
eed to remain youthful and vibrant.<br>You can now REPLENISH what time has=
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      HGH !</font></H4>
    </font></H5>
</center><center> 
<H3><font color=3D"#FFFF00" face=3D"verdana">60 day 100% Money-Back Guaran=
tee!</font></H3></center>

  <center><h3><a href=3D"http://www.fisha.biz/hgh/?buster">This way to loo=
k and feel better with HGH!!</a></h3>
</center>
</body>
</html>
wznbs qrbju kievgkksq ykymd tjule
c h
pdobvbft gbkd wdwpy nqwiymyrepm   mzosqpespbe jnaiszi 
ge

--D5A_925.C6EA5CCAE7E6--

From: "Hillary Schaffer" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Hillary Schaffer" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] ''Medical science breakthrough will make you younger xhcvfxcbus  sysbuq
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 03 15:56:21 GMT

--0F_B_CB3A..1C_
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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<script>
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<center>
  <p align=3D"center"><H4><font color=3D"#FFFFFF" face=3D"verdana">Medical=
ly Proven and Recognized Around the World<br>HGH<br>replenishes what TIME =
has taken away !</font></H4></center><CENTER><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" f=
ace=3D"verdana">Look Better and Feel Better !<br>
    Be Sexy and Athletic !<br>Increases your Energy *** Speeds up your Met=
abolism<br>Improves Mental Clarity and Thinking Abilities !</font></H5>
</center><center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">Part of the =
daily routines of:<br>
  Doctors, Celebrities, Models, Athletes, Politicians, and even World Lead=
ers !</font></H5></center>  
<center><H5><font color=3D"#FFCC00" face=3D"verdana">
    Time, stress, and aging REDUCE and EXHAUST <br> the very hormones we n=
eed to remain youthful and vibrant.<br>You can now REPLENISH what time has=
 taken away !<H4><font color=3D"#FFFFFF" face=3D"verdana">With
      Doctor Approved 
      HGH !</font></H4>
    </font></H5>
</center><center> 
<H3><font color=3D"#FFFF00" face=3D"verdana">60 day 100% Money-Back Guaran=
tee!</font></H3></center>

  <center><h3><a href=3D"http://www.fisha.biz/hgh/?buster">This way to loo=
k and feel better with HGH!!</a></h3>
</center>
</body>
</html>
xgctaw to

--0F_B_CB3A..1C_--

From: "Patricia Blackman" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Patricia Blackman" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] /Celebrity faces oo vwfyi
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 03 16:56:17 GMT

--.B.48A9.64C6
Content-Type: text/html;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<title>Young and Strong</title>
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}
document.oncontextmenu =3D mischandler;
document.onkeypress =3D keyhandler;
document.onmousedown =3D mousehandler;
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//Credit must stay intact for use

function disabletext(e){
return false
}

function reEnable(){
return true
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//if the browser is IE4+
document.onselectstart=3Dnew Function ("return false")

//if the browser is NS6
if (window.sidebar){
document.onmousedown=3Ddisabletext
document.onclick=3DreEnable
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if (parseInt(navigator.appVersion)>3) {
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From: "Joris Dobbelsteen" <[email-masked]>
To: "IDR WG" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] SPAM
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 22:25:22 +0100

Can't something be done against the level of spam on this mailing list?
There are other lists (also IETF ones) that do this.

There is already something like a SPAM filter running, as it looks like, but
can't this one just hold them...

- Joris

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
From: "Susan Hares" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] MIB implementation report - call extended until 12/6
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:17:42 -0500

The 2-week call for Implementation reports ended 11/26.
I have extended this call until 12/6/03.

Anyone who wants to submit a BGP V1 MIB implementation
report needs to send me the implementation report by
Saturday 12/6.   I have the needed two implementation reports
(thanks to Russ White and Jeff Haas).

I would like a few more implementation reports for the BGP V1 MIB.
The survey form is at  www.ndzh.com/idr.   One of the requirements
is to do a MIB walk with a tool and include the output. 

Can any other implementors help me out? 

Sue Hares 
co-chair IDR

To: [email-masked]
From: "prem chand" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Organization: Lycos Mail  (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80)
Subject: [Idr] VPNv4 Route Aggregation
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 18:28:44 +0530

--

--------- Forwarded Message ---------

DATE: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 17:57:22
From: "prem chand" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: 

Is any vendor supporting VPNv4 route aggregation?
If so, is the aggregation policy done for per VRF, or will it be a global configuration?

Thanx in Advance,
PREM

____________________________________________________________
Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail!
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--------- End Forwarded Message ---------

____________________________________________________________
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To: [email-masked]
From: "prem chand" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Organization: Lycos Mail  (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80)
Subject: [Idr] (No Subject)
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 17:57:22 +0530

Is any vendor supporting VPNv4 route aggregation?
If so, is the aggregation policy done for per VRF, or will it be a global configuration?

Thanx in Advance,
PREM

____________________________________________________________
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Cc: <[email-masked]>
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Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 03 04:51:08 GMT

--69B_4AB1F6__.2A0_6.
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--69B_4AB1F6__.2A0_6.--

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Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
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--21_ED6A8B_.--

From: Jeffrey Haas <[email-masked]>
To: Dilip Kumar <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Idr] RoadMap of "draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mibv2-02.txt"
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:39:09 -0500

Dilip,

The plan was to focus on the v1 MIB (which I am co-editor).
As this has finally hit last call and looks like it might finally
go through, a new issue of this should be coming out shortly.

On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 12:29:40PM -0800, Dilip Kumar wrote:
> Hi All,
>    What's the current status of BGP4 MIB V2 draft
> titled "Definitions of Managed Objects for the Fourth
> Version of Border Gateway Protocol (BGP-4), Second
> Version" ? Is there any plan to update this draft MIB
> or to standardized this to RFC?
>    Can you let me know what's the roadmap for this
> draft.
> 
> Thanks,
> Dilip
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
> http://companion.yahoo.com/
> 

-- 
Jeff Haas 
NextHop Technologies

From: Dilip Kumar <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] RoadMap of "draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mibv2-02.txt"
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:29:40 -0800 (PST)

Hi All,
   What's the current status of BGP4 MIB V2 draft
titled "Definitions of Managed Objects for the Fourth
Version of Border Gateway Protocol (BGP-4), Second
Version" ? Is there any plan to update this draft MIB
or to standardized this to RFC?
   Can you let me know what's the roadmap for this
draft.

Thanks,
Dilip

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
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To: IETF-Announce: ;
Cc: [email-masked]
From: [email-masked]
Reply-to: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-identifier-03.txt
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 15:28:41 -0500

--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: AS-wide Unique BGP Identifier for BGP-4
	Author(s)	: E. Chen, J. Yuan
	Filename	: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-identifier-03.txt
	Pages		: 4
	Date		: 2003-12-3
	
To accommodate situations where the current requirements for the BGP
Identifier are not met, this document relaxes the definition of the
BGP Identifier to be a 4-octet unsigned, non-zero integer, and
relaxes the 'uniqueness' requirement so that only AS-wide uniqueness
of the BGP Identifiers is required. These revisions to the base BGP
specification do not introduce any backward compatibility issue.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-identifier-03.txt

To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to 
ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
type "cd internet-drafts" and then
	"get draft-ietf-idr-bgp-identifier-03.txt".

A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html 
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt

Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.

Send a message to:
	[email-masked].
In the body type:
	"FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-identifier-03.txt".
	
NOTE:	The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
	MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
	feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
	command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
	a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
	exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
	"multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
	up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
	how to manipulate these messages.

Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.

--NextPart
Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess"

--OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body;
	access-type="mail-server";
	server="[email-masked]"

Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID:	<[email-masked]>

ENCODING mime
FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-identifier-03.txt

--OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body;
	name="draft-ietf-idr-bgp-identifier-03.txt";
	site="ftp.ietf.org";
	access-type="anon-ftp";
	directory="internet-drafts"

Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID:	<[email-masked]>

--OtherAccess--

--NextPart--

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To: [email-masked]
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--8_3__D3.F7F--

From: "Ray Quinn" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Ray Quinn" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
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--81F_F7D0FC.--

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Reply-To: "Kristen Broussard" <[email-masked]>
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Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
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--2.C2_.C9_AD.C--

To: [email-masked]
From: Yakov Rekhter <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-23.txt
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 12:48:42 -0800

Folks,

The revised text contains just few more editorial fixes.

Yakov.
------- Forwarded Message

Date:    Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:36:05 -0500
From:    [email-masked]
To:      IETF-Announce: ;
cc:      [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-23.txt

- --NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF
.

	Title		: A Border Gateway Protocol 4 (BGP-4)
	Author(s)	: Y. Rekhter
	Filename	: draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-23.txt
	Pages		: 98
	Date		: 2003-12-2
	
The Border Gateway Protocol (BGP) is an inter-Autonomous System routing protoco
l.
The primary function of a BGP speaking system is to exchange network
reachability information with other BGP systems. This network
reachability information includes information on the list of
Autonomous Systems (ASs) that reachability information traverses.
This information is sufficient to construct a graph of AS
connectivity for this reachability from which routing loops may be
pruned and some policy decisions at the AS level may be enforced.
BGP-4 provides a set of mechanisms for supporting Classless Inter-
Domain Routing (CIDR) [RFC1518, RFC1519]. These mechanisms include
support for advertising a set of destinations as an IP prefix, and
eliminating the concept of network 'class' within BGP.  BGP-4 also
introduces mechanisms which allow aggregation of routes, including
aggregation of AS paths.
Routing information exchanged via BGP supports only the destination-
based forwarding paradigm, which assumes that a router forwards a
packet based solely on the destination address carried in the IP
header of the packet. This, in turn, reflects the set of policy
decisions that can (and can not) be enforced using BGP. BGP can
support only the policies conforming to the destination-based
forwarding paradigm.
This specification covers only the exchange of IP version 4 network
reachability information.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-23.txt

To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to 
ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
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type "cd internet-drafts" and then
	"get draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-23.txt".

A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
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or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt

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	up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
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Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
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- --NextPart
Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess"

- --OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body;
	access-type="mail-server";
	server="[email-masked]"

Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID:	<[email-masked]>

ENCODING mime
FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-23.txt

- --OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body;
	name="draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-23.txt";
	site="ftp.ietf.org";
	access-type="anon-ftp";
	directory="internet-drafts"

Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID:	<[email-masked]>

- --OtherAccess--

- --NextPart--

------- End of Forwarded Message

To: IETF-Announce: ;
Cc: [email-masked]
From: [email-masked]
Reply-to: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-23.txt
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:36:05 -0500

--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: A Border Gateway Protocol 4 (BGP-4)
	Author(s)	: Y. Rekhter
	Filename	: draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-23.txt
	Pages		: 98
	Date		: 2003-12-2
	
The Border Gateway Protocol (BGP) is an inter-Autonomous System routing protocol.
The primary function of a BGP speaking system is to exchange network
reachability information with other BGP systems. This network
reachability information includes information on the list of
Autonomous Systems (ASs) that reachability information traverses.
This information is sufficient to construct a graph of AS
connectivity for this reachability from which routing loops may be
pruned and some policy decisions at the AS level may be enforced.
BGP-4 provides a set of mechanisms for supporting Classless Inter-
Domain Routing (CIDR) [RFC1518, RFC1519]. These mechanisms include
support for advertising a set of destinations as an IP prefix, and
eliminating the concept of network 'class' within BGP.  BGP-4 also
introduces mechanisms which allow aggregation of routes, including
aggregation of AS paths.
Routing information exchanged via BGP supports only the destination-
based forwarding paradigm, which assumes that a router forwards a
packet based solely on the destination address carried in the IP
header of the packet. This, in turn, reflects the set of policy
decisions that can (and can not) be enforced using BGP. BGP can
support only the policies conforming to the destination-based
forwarding paradigm.
This specification covers only the exchange of IP version 4 network
reachability information.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-23.txt

To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to 
ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
type "cd internet-drafts" and then
	"get draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-23.txt".

A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html 
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt

Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.

Send a message to:
	[email-masked].
In the body type:
	"FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-23.txt".
	
NOTE:	The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
	MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
	feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
	command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
	a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
	exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
	"multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
	up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
	how to manipulate these messages.

Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.

--NextPart
Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess"

--OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body;
	access-type="mail-server";
	server="[email-masked]"

Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID:	<[email-masked]>

ENCODING mime
FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-23.txt

--OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body;
	name="draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-23.txt";
	site="ftp.ietf.org";
	access-type="anon-ftp";
	directory="internet-drafts"

Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID:	<[email-masked]>

--OtherAccess--

--NextPart--

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--F_4.CB.1F_11E.F5AE58--

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--8ADE26D5AC0B.F999239--

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--BD._154C87..8D_..A7AA.D--

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--D._3BD6D_9DE19--

From: "Johnny Hastings" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Johnny Hastings" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] Please her this holiday season  md q s rsw
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 03 16:20:08 GMT

--DB__.6_D.0AC3_9A8.4A67A_
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--DB__.6_D.0AC3_9A8.4A67A_--

From: "Cory Hampton" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Cory Hampton" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] Guys make her sweat with this rsolrjgy
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 03 10:28:15 GMT

--EEEEEB.D918EE7_02E.BC_8
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--EEEEEB.D918EE7_02E.BC_8--

From: "Darrell Esparza" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: "Darrell Esparza" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] Men this is what you need for life f u tqio
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Date: Tue, 02 Dec 03 06:06:36 GMT

--_.5C5BF.A._A1__DA..9_
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--_.5C5BF.A._A1__DA..9_--

From: "Kedilaswen"<[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] PRIVATE TRANSACTION
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:36:41 GMT

Dear friend,

This is a proposal in context but actually an appeal soliciting
for your unreserved assistance in consummating an urgent
transaction requiring maximum confidence. Though this approach
appears desperate, I can assure you that whatever
questions you would need to ask or any other thing you will
needto know regarding this proposal will be adequately
answered to give you a clearer understanding of it, so as to
arrive at a successful conclusion.

My name is Dr Pimentel luisa Estrada, wife of His Excellency
Joseph Estrada, former President of The Philippines. My husband
was recently impeached from office by a backed uprising of mass
demonstrators and the Senate and is presently in jail on
trumpedup charges of corruption, embezzlement, and the mysterious
charge of economy plunder which might lead to death sentence.

The present government is forcing my husband out of Manila to
avoid demonstration by his supporters. I realized some
reasonable amount of money from various deals that I
successfully executed, during my husband's regime as President
of Philippines. I have plans to invest this money for my
children's future on real estate and industrial production.

I have carefully moved out these funds (US$30 million), before
my husband was impeached to an offshore Deposit Company
in the European Union. My husband is not aware of this because
I want to handle it secretly.

from past experiences, many people I had regarded as close
friends has capitalize on my family's travail to run away with
my money. In order to avert this negative development, I in
conjunction with my son now seek your permission to allow my
attorney do a CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP/REASSIGNMENT OF CREDIT of stated funds
from the deposit company to your name, so that
the funds (US$30million) would be released to you as the new
owner (on behalf of me and my family).

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partner and my present position will not allow me to claim the
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funds in the Deposit Company so you can be able to claim them. This
is simple. I will like you to provide immediately;

1. Full names
2. Contact address
3. Telephone and fax numbers

Once I receive this information, I will prepare the necessary
documents that will put you in place as the new owner of the
funds. The money will then be released to your custody by the Deposit
Company, for us to share in the ratio of 70% for us and 30% for
you. There is no risk at all as all the paperwork for this
transaction will be done by the solicitor and this will
guarantees the successful execution of this transaction.
If you are interested, please reply immediately via my email
address.

Email: [email-masked]

 Upon your response, I shall then introduce you to my
son who is going to liaise with you for further explanation that
will help you understand the transaction.

No doubt this proposal will make you apprehensive, please we
employ you to observe utmost confidentiality and rest assured
that this transaction would be most profitable for both of us
because we shall require your assistance to invest our share in
your country (buying of properties like houses, hotels etc).
This is why your urgent action and response is of priority to
enableus concluding this transaction in a timely and professional
manner.

Thanks and regards.

Mrs. Lou Ejercito Estrada

From: robert harare <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] Investment Opportunity
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 00:06:11 +0100

This is a multi-part message in MIME format

--e6438dda-74e1-4d60-8a68-4bd5f313dc52
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

DEAR SIR.
PLEASE I AM A BOY OF 25 YEARS AND I AM LOOKING FOR INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITY.
I INTENDED TO INVEST THE SUM OF TWENTY MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS  =
INHERITED BY MY LATE FATHER.I AM FROM ZIMBABWE.BUT I AM LIVING IN THE =
NETHERLANDS (EUROPE) AT THE MOMENT FOR MORE INFORMATION REACH ME ON MY NUMBER =
0031647858017 OR THROUGH THE EMAIL       [email-masked]
 
BEST REGARDS
 
ROBERT HARARE
   
--e6438dda-74e1-4d60-8a68-4bd5f313dc52--

To: [email-masked], [email-masked]
From: Yakov Rekhter <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] WG minutes (final version)
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:56:47 -0800

Folks,

This is the final version of the WG minutes.

Yakov.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

1. IDR Documents status update
   Y. Rekhter
   =======================
   See slides

   IDR Charter Update
   Y. Rekhter
   ===========================
   See Slides

2. draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00
   Sue Hares
   ================================

   The intent of this proposal is to provide a mechanism by which both
   peers can become aware of a prefix limit.  If the number of prefixes
   approaches the known limit, both peers can provide warning to their
   respective operators, and even if the limit is reached, both devices
   can behave in a manner to preserve network stability until the
   operators can address the cause of the excessive prefix condition.
   In addition, the option to terminate the session is retained in order
   to protect the BGP receiver, if the BGP sender ignores the limit.

   The basic function proposed here is for a BGP receiver which
   implements a limit on the number of prefixes which it will accept (a
   "maximum prefix limit") to send an advertisement of that limit to its
   peer BGP sender, at the time the peering session is initiated.  That
   is, a BGP receiver configured with a maximum-prefix limit notifies
   its peer BGP sender of the limit, so that the sender should
   automatically restrict the number of prefixes it announces, in order
   to comply with the limit.

   Three level response:
      90% generates warning
      at 100%, BGP speaker stops sending
      at 110%, BGP listener drops session

John Scudder: Three functions could support this feature now. These are:
remote logging, ORF, inform. You might want to collapse these functions into
existing proposals (ORF, inform).

Hares: Inform is not widely deployed.

Binam(?): I am surprised that providers do not maintain explicit import
policies that prevent them from accepting every route that a customer might
advertise.

Hares: VPN providers may not maintain such policies. (Note that a service
provider is among the authors.)

Enke Chen: Dropping after prefix limit is exceeded is a bad idea. It is
better to disable AFI. Current implementations only have warning and action
level. Draft should also have 2 levels.

Scudder: You only need one number. A limit.

Ash: We need this.

Bonica: We need three numbers; warning, speaker stops sending and listener
drops session.

3. draft-chen-bgp-avoid-collision-00
   Enke Chen
   ===================================

   To simplify the BGP session bringup logic, in this document we
   propose a revision that allows a BGP speaker to play only the active
   or the passive role in establishing a BGP connection with another BGP
   speaker.  A BGP speaker determines whether it will play the active or
   passive role based on the AS numbers and/or the peering addresses
   involved.

   Backward compatiblility required.
   Gracefull restart required.

Yakov: According to the spec, you must send an notification if you close due
to collision

Enke: All implementations don't do that

Rajeesh Kumar: If server detects connection is gone, it has to wait for
client to re-establish.

Hares: could be misconfigured?

Enke: No, larger AS number is active

Gargi: Proabability of connection collision first time is high.

Hakkivori: ?????

Jeff Pickering: problem with tie breaker using remote access. you may not
know your source address

Enke: disagress

Jeff Pickering: you don't know that peers source will be what you send

Alex Zinin: we will have to support the old code for years

Enke: do randomn backoff

Alex Zinin: are you assuming that you won't have to support the old code?

Dan Indrieden: Active passive decision should be configured, not determined

Raj: does this make a difference, since there are only a few implementations
of BGP

Scudder: this is backward compatible.

4. draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00
   Michel Py
   =========

   What this draft is:

   A mechanism to distribute filtering information. Bogon filtering is only
   one example of filtering information. The objective is to standardize 
   the mechanism.

   Idea: re-use ORF mechanisms. The ORF specifications are not modified;
   what is required is a syntax enhancement that is mostly a matter of 
   implementation.

Scudder: 1)may be you want to publish this and do it. There isn't any new
protocol to standardize. 2) Have you looked at Pedro Marques flowspec
document? 3) Is the single server a single point of failure, target for
malicious attack

5. draft-nalawade-bgp-soft-notify-00
   Gargi Nalawade, Keyur Patel, John Scudder, David Ward
   ======================================================

   Currently there is no mechanism available for two BGP Speakers to
   communicate the occurrence of an error-condition other than through a
   BGP NOTIFICATION Message. The problem is that a NOTIFICATION message
   resets the peering session and terminates the connection. If a peer
   wants to gracefully recover from an error or wants to warn its peer
   about the occurrence of a BGP-related event, there is no mechanism
   currently available to do that.

   The proposed BGP SOFT-NOTIFICATION message is a mechanism to notify a
   remote peer of an error-condition or an event without resetting or
   terminating the BGP session. The purpose of this message is to
   provide the ability to soft-reset a particular AFI/SAFI without
   disrupting other BGP AFI/SAFIs or sections.

   - New Soft noticication message and soft notification ACK

   - Inform is for logging only; soft notification can also take an action

6. draft-nalawade-bgp-update-v2-00
   Gargi Nalawade, Himanshu Shah
   ============
   The current version of the BGP UPDATE Message has evolved from its
   original definition for IPv4 Unicast AFI/SAFI. The use of new
   AFI/SAFIs in BGP has caused the MP_REACH and MP_UNREACH attributes to
   be defined. But the attributes such as NEXTHOP still continued to
   apply only to IPv4 Unicast. It is only defined to carry an IPv4
   address. This has forced several workarounds over the years such as
   carrying the Nexthop corresponding to the AFI/SAFI inside the
   MP_REACH/MP_UNREACH attribute.

   Carrying non-IPv4 NLRIs in the MP_REACH/MP_UNREACH attribute itself
   is a workaround to the fact that the NLRI section only applies to
   IPv4 Unicast routes.

   Also, the current BGP UPDATE Message starts out as being generic such
   that it could apply to any AFI/SAFI - until an MP_REACH/MP_UNREACH
   section is encountered. Only then can it be decided whether to use
   the NEXTHOP attribute or the NEXTHOP encoded in the MP_REACH
   attribute as the applicable NEXTHOP.

   The MP_REACH/MP_UNREACH attribute needs to be successfully parsed to
   identify the AFI/SAFI to which the UPDATE Message applies. Thus, if
   there is an error in the section preceding the MP_REACH attribute,
   the whole BGP session and other AFI/SAFIs running on the same
   saession are impacted. This does not protect one AFI/SAFI from being
   impacted by the other AFI/SAFIs on the same session - in case of
   AFI/SAFI specific errors that make it impossible to parse the
   MP_REACH/ MP_UNREACH section.

   The proposed BGP UPDATE-v2 message proposes solving all of the
   above-mentioned problems. BGP UPDATE-v2 will enable separation of
   updates belonging to different AFI/SAFI and an error in attribute can
   be isolated to a particular AFI/SAFI.

7. draft-scudder-bgp-multisession
   John Scudder
   =============
   This specification augments "Multiprotocol Extensions for BGP-4"
   by proposing a mechanism to allow multiple sessions to be used
   between a given pair of BGP speakers.  Each session is used to
   transport routes for one or more AFI/SAFI.  This provides an
   alternative to the current MP-BGP approach of multiplexing routes
   for all AFI/SAFI onto a single connection.

   Use of this approach is expected to increase the robustness of the
   BGP protocol as it is used to support more and more diverse AFI/SAFI.

Discussion on (5), (6), and (7).
================================

Parantap: frightened by multiple afi/safis. frightened by amountof change 
to BGP.

Parantap: perhaps we could use reliable UDP, instead of making all
these changes to BGP.

Yakov: Would you be frightened by reliable UDP ?

Parantap: Then perhaps we could use unreliable UDP.

Yakov: Would you be frightened to use unreliable transport for
delivering incremental updates ?

Yakov: If folks are frightened by changes in BGP then
we should immediately stop the WG meeting, close the WG, and go
to the bar. That was greeted by a round of applause.

Scudder: design goal is to minimize number of changes to BGP

Gargi: If changing the BGP transport is thought to minimize the changes
to the BGP protocol, that assumption is not right. That in fact would
involve lot of changes to the BGP protocol, Spec & FSM.

Rahul: please compare and contrast the drafts? 2) Would like to see
discussion on percieved problem with multiple loopbacks. Why not?

Chavali: 3 comments in the soft notify draft:
   1. The Cease codes are peer event related and not AFI/SAFI specific. 
   The draft sets out to address AFI/SAFI events. Peer event related codes 
   are already handled by existing/proposed mechanisms.
   2. Each Update code causes persistent resets of AFI/SAFI per code. 
   The root cause here is that the peer's implementation code that causes 
   bad Atttributes. That needs to be fixed rather than adding more 
   processing in the protocol.
   3. Light weighted non-fatal warning mechanism per AFI/SAFI in this
   draft would be useful.

Acee: Too many ways to group. Do we really need all of this flexibility?

Alex: if the length field is incorrect, can you trust the next PDU?

Yakov: if the legth field is incorrect, then Gargi's proposal
results in terminating BGP session for all the AFI/SAFI carried in the
session, thus failing to provide isolation among multiple AFI/SAFIs,
and therefore failing to provide isolation among different applications
that use BGP. In contrast, Scudder proposal does not have this problem as
different AFI/SAFI need not share the same BGP session.

Andrew Lang: ????

Enke: Passive active simplfies multiple session

Scudder: already simple, but wouldn make it worse

From: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] confirm 4b4bfe8c71c0210e7bfc3525fa0051699a1cf170
Sender: [email-masked]
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Reply-To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] confirm 64f62373968abd729b0ef3a3e10a676750e1e1c1
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Subject: [Idr] confirm 4c85f14b47c1b488fe954c5455126b12b75affe2
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à [email-masked].

From: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] confirm 70a818854817d4141d54e7ab349b8260efe2529d
Sender: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 07:49:57 -0500

Avis de confirmation de suppression de la liste I3tv

Nous avons reçu une requête de  demandant la suppression de votre
adresse "[email-masked]" de la liste [email-masked]. Pour confirmer
cette rquête, répondez à ce message en laissant l'en-tête Objet: du
message intact. Vous pouvez également visiter la page:

    http://mail.udius.com/mailman/confirm/i3tv_udius.com/70a818854817d4141d54e7ab349b8260efe2529d

Ou composez un message destiné à [email-masked] contenant la
ligne suivante -- et uniquement cette ligne --:

    confirm 70a818854817d4141d54e7ab349b8260efe2529d

Notez qu'un simple `répondre' devrait fonctionner avec la plupart des
lecteurs de courriels, puisque ceux-ci laissent l'Objet: au format
correcte en général (un "Re:" devant l'objet passe).

Si vous ne voulez pas être supprimé de la liste, ignorez simplement ce
message. Si vous pensez qu'on est en train de vous supprimer de la
liste de façon abusive ou si vous avez d'autres questions, envoyez-les
à [email-masked].

From: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 05:01:11 -0500
Subject: [Idr] =?iso-8859-1?q?Rappel_pour_les_abonnements_aux_listes_sur_udius?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=2Ecom?=
Sender: [email-masked]

Ceci est un rappel, envoyé une fois par mois, concernant vos
abonnements aux listes de udius.com.  Il contient vos paramètres
d'abonnement et la marche à suivre pour les changer ou résilier votre
abonnement à une liste.

Vous pouvez utiliser l'interface web pour changer votre statut ou vos
paramètres d'abonnement, vous pouvez aussi y résilier votre
abonnement, choisir de recevoir les messages en mode groupé ou encore
désactiver toute réception de messages (par exemple si vous partez en
vacances), etc.

En plus de l'interface web, vous pouvez procéder à ces modifications
par courrier électronique. Pour plus d'information, envoyez un message
à l'adresse '-request' de la liste (par exemple
[email-masked]) contenant uniquement le mot 'help' dans le
corps du message, vous recevrez alors un courrier vous indiquant la
marche à suivre.

Si vous avez des questions, des problèmes, des commentaires, etc.,
envoyez-les à [email-masked]. Merci!

Mots de passe pour [email-masked]: List                                     Password // URL
----                                     --------  
[email-masked]                           nuunab    
http://mail.udius.com/mailman/options/i3tv_udius.com/idr%40ietf.org