Subject: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission (cellar) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-01-28 CHANGED

From: IESG Secretary <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 07:03:19 -0800

MEETING DETAILS HAVE CHANGED.  SEE LATEST DETAILS BELOW.

The Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission (cellar) Working Group will hold
a virtual interim meeting on 2020-01-28 from 21:00 to 22:00 Europe/Amsterdam.

Agenda:

CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting
January  28, 2020      19:00 UTC
                       21:00 Amsterdam
                       15:00 NYC
                       12:00 San Francisco

INFO:
   https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-cellar-01/session/cellar
   https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-interim-2020-cellar-01-cellar-01/

WEB CONFERENCE:
   https://whereby.com/cellar-interim
   THERE IS NO TELEPHONE DIALIN (You can try this at any time.)
   These notes at: https://github.com/cellar-wg/chair-notes

1. Note Well.  https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
2. Accept draft minutes from December 10 meeting (attached below)

3. Logistics for Meeting.
   2a) Etherpad for notes
       https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-cellar-virtual?useMonospaceFont=true

   2b) APPEAR.IN is not called &quot;whereby.com&quot;
       https://whereby.com/cellar-interim

   2c) Roll call

4. Welcome to Spencer Dawkins.

5. WG status update
   * EBML -- version 16 was posted 2019-12-22,
             on IESG telechat for 2019-12-16
      https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml/writeup/
      https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml/ballot/

   * FFV1 -- version 11 was posted 2019-10-23, waiting for AD writeup.

REVIEW oF IESG DISCUSS COMMENTS from Adam Roach.
   Roman: &quot;Section 1.  Please add a reference for WebM&quot;

ACTION: MCR to followup with Robert Sparks on IANA issue.
  -&gt; EBML is a &quot;general purpose audio/video container&quot;  Steve to fix #304.

6. Work on Matroska issues.

---- PREVIOUS NOTES

  CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting
  December 10, 2019      19:00 UTC
                       21:00 Amsterdam
                       15:00 NYC
                       12:00 San Francisco

REGRETS:
     1) Reto Kromer

PRESENT:
    1) Michael Richardson
    2) Benjamin Turkus
    3) Dave Rice
    4) Martin Below
    5) Michael Niedermayer
    6) Peter Bubestinger
    7) Steve Lhomme
    8) Jerome Martinez
    9) Dante Bromkovsky

INFO:
   https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2019-cellar-10/session/cellar
   https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-interim-2019-cellar-10-sessa/

WEB CONFERENCE:
   https://whereby.com/cellar-interim
   THERE IS NO TELEPHONE DIALIN (You can try this at any time.)
   These notes at: https://github.com/cellar-wg/chair-notes

1. Note Well.  https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
2. Accept draft minutes from October 22 meeting (attached below)
	no objections or changes noted.

3. Logistics for Meeting.
   2a) Etherpad for notes
       https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-cellar-virtual?useMonospaceFont=true

   2b) APPEAR.IN is not called &quot;whereby.com&quot;
       https://whereby.com/cellar-interim

   2c) Roll call

4. Establish meeting schedule for 2020!
     Fourth tuesday of the month.  Starting January 28, 2020.
     No meeting in July.
     September meeting might be 22nd, at conference &quot;No Time to Wait&quot;. (web page for the last one: https://mediaarea.net/NoTimeToWait4 , in Amsterdam 2020 September)
     November meeting moved to Tuesday, December 1.

5. WG status update
   * EBML -- version 14 was posted 2019-12-02, on IESG telechat for 2019-12-05
               --- deferred as document was too long for some IESG membes to get a handle on
   * FFV1 -- version 11 was posted 2019-10-23, waiting for AD writeup.

Dave Rice reports that changes that occured today was as a result of a review; some figures and tables are now cross-referenced more clearly.
The same was done to ffv1.  Some help is needed to get appropriate captions on the tables.
Robert Sparks asks that new versions not be updated until there are replies and instructions.
ACTION: MCR to followup with Robert Sparks on IANA issue.
  -&gt; EBML is a &quot;general purpose audio/video container&quot;  Steve to fix #304.

6. Work on Matroska issues.

Split the main Matroska document to take the Chapters in another document?
Only elements required for proper playback should be in the main document.
Document 166 pages today.
Chapters is 6 pages, section 11.  --- but the section is not finished.
Core document 9.3.4 &quot;Tracks&quot; is pages 45-&gt;106.

MCR: hears support for splitting the chapter off, but asks if there is really that much savings.
Steve: we could make the document smaller by grouping things that have only one parent or one child, with some better transformation of the formatting.

The chapters section is not finished, and there are lot of incomplete sections which will
make the section significantly larger, and so splitting it off into another document may still be justified.
It makes no sense to work on it now, but make the split off now.
Steve will give it a try and see what the savings is, and if we have a lot references that break, but does not think that this is the case.
Dave Rice is hesistant, not sure he sees enough of an advantage.
Tags and Meta-data are developed asynchronously, but the chapters are not going to evolve in place.
This issue will be deferred.

Peter B:
	ffv1 support in davinci / black-magic.  Would rather do this after the document is published. What is status?
	did Derek&#39;s feedback about the implementation in GO make it back into the document.
	DR: Yes, this went back into the document about three months ago.  This resulted in a few issues being created, and the review was very helpful.

Noting that there are three decoders: ffmpeg, Derek-GO, and Jerome&#39;s decoder

7. Any other business.

7.1  Side Data Format for MKV
	Benjamin: side data format for MKV!
	Dave Rice: it is merged into Matroska, can add side data to frames.
	Three competing things how to encode time code into the file. Related discussion at https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/cellar/?q=matroska%20and%20side%20data%20vs%20timecode.
	1) use side data. A debated proposal is at https://github.com/cellar-wg/matroska-specification/pull/348. (needsd to mentioned in main document) A sample of matroska with side data timecode is at https://github.com/Matroska-Org/matroska-test-files/pull/5.
	2) meta-data tag or segment info(needs to be in main document)
	3) seperate track (codec-like document)

NEXT meeting is 2020-01-22,

Information about remote participation:
https://whereby.com/cellar-interim