Subject: Re: [ietf-dkim] [Interop] Adding a 'consultants' page to dkim.org

From: SM <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2008 09:05:22 -0700

At 12:48 30-09-2008, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:
> >    Operations
>
>Not sure which this one is (dkim-ops?).  I'd say this is the general list
>for questions about deployment and operations.  This is where I believe
>questions about reputation and multiple signatures should be discussed,
>except where those coversations relate directly to standardization or
>development/testing.

There is a line between operations and user help.  Questions about 
specific software/hardware should be taken on the mailing lists set 
up for that purpose.  This list could be used for high level 
questions about deployment and operations.  If there is too much 
"noise" because of user level questions, people may stop paying 
attention to the list and it won't fulfill its purpose anymore.

Regards,
-sm 

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---

From: "Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 23:59:33 +0100

> I would *very* strongly hope that discussion about the use of domain names 
> for
> making quality assessments (reputation) would be on an entirely different 
> list.
>  (And, yes, we might need to create one.)

Have we started this discussion already?

>
> Anyhow, is the ops list where the water-cooler self-help consulting should 
> take
> place?
>

IMHO Yes.

The users list I was suggesting would be ops. I can't see end users without 
any sys$admin priviledge and/or domain names requiring help with DKIM. As 
soon as you start dabbling with the mechanics, it's ops, isn't it?

That said, I am *very* surprised about how little (read: no) traffic is 
present on the ops list. Is DKIM so seldom used so far? Compare this with 
users/ops lists for mailer softwares... perhaps haven't we reached that 
stage yet?

Cheers,

O.

---

From: Dave CROCKER <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 21:39:38 -0700

> attention to the list and it won't fulfill its purpose anymore.

While what you say makes sense, in terms of general distinctions, I do not 
understand how it applies for DKIM.  "Users" for DKIM are operations folk, not 
consumer-styled end users.

So:  Who, exactly, are the people who would be on the "operations" list and what 
would they talk about, versus who would be the people on the users list and what 
would they talk about?  How are the people on these two lists different?

It increasingly seems to be that we need one (or two) lists for developers and 
one for operations (classic OA&M).  I don't have any preference about this; it's 
merely all that I am seeing.

The choice for developers seems to be between programmers trying to decipher 
specifications, versus testers running interoperability or conformance scenarios.

Comments?

Thanks!

d/
-- 

   Dave Crocker
   Brandenburg InternetWorking
   bbiw.net
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---

From: Dave CROCKER <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 21:43:02 -0700

Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Sep 2008, Dave CROCKER wrote:
>>>   I'd say this is the general list for questions about deployment and 
>>> operations.  This is where I believe questions about reputation and 
>>> multiple signatures should be discussed, except where those coversations 
>>> relate directly to standardization or development/testing.
 >>
>> Ewww. "reputation"?  No, I hope not.  For the moment, we are only 
>> talking about the mechanics of creating and interpreting DKIM 
>> signatures.
> 
> I'm referring mainly to general public questions about "How do I tie this 
> to reputation?"  Not our industry debates; those go on MAAWG or IETF lists 
> as they have been.

Ahhh.  An open, public forum for discussion about domain name-based reputation?

Such a topic has to begin with an authenticated name and then has to figure out 
what to do with it that is useful.

(What should the name of the list be?  Nothing mnemonic and apropirate occurs to 
me.)

d/
-- 

   Dave Crocker