Subject: [Ietf-hub-boston] Announcement - IETF-95 Remote Hub to be held in Juniper NEIC

From: Raveendra Torvi <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 17:27:01 +0000

Juniper New England Innovation Center will be hosting IETF-95 Hub Work Groups, from April 4-8 Monday to Friday. 

Please check this out for more details:
http://meetu.ps/e/Brc36/tZx8j/a

Thanks,
Ravi

---

From: Alia Atlas <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 14:13:21 -0400

Hi John,

First, this is a first effort and you are more than welcome to help, have
other
spaces for different WGs, and so on.  This is what seemed convenient to
Ravi,
who is organizing it.  I'm just trying to help with getting the words out
there.

On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 2:02 PM, John Leslie <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Alia Atlas <[email-masked]> wrote:
> >
> > For those in the Boston area during IETF95 next week, Ravi Torvi at
> Juniper
> > is hosting some remote hub sessions (primarily Routing).  Check out
> > http://www.meetup.com/Juniper-Networks-Meetup-New-Engla???/???/???
> > <
> http://www.meetup.com/Juniper-Networks-Meetup-New-England/events/229923986/?from=ref
> >
> >  and http://doodle.com/poll/fstd9rkdmqdywmvp
> > <
> http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fdoodle.com%2Fpoll%2Ffstd9rkdmqdywmvp&h=4AQHC2_nyAQFqS5xvUi0uzCw8pZsD6bjWhhfxxNvNp3Y5Rg&enc=AZP2uWk1BAUrzlRlHsUegbOCrbCzWuZZSbzl6dOeqLn4PZ_6qzb7n7NjCfZx-K3CG7tpe15mbANCWYmqkrks2ksxlzfsukZepXPabdFqA98IZ54CLxr87xHmtLEPLtlqwIFhPerfWBpbg-DXTxi8As8A3wokn0PZXHeHEENVgvBydlB4ohkKfqnHFDB5-Lkfjhk&s=1
> >
> > to
> > sign up. The WGs or BoF sessions that are planned are: TEAS, Babel BoF,
> Spring,
> > IDR, DetNet, MPLS, PCE, Accord BoF, BESS, I2RS, Anima, and RTGWG.
>
>    I've fought my way through these... well, sort of: it was hard to
> exaggerate how old I am, but I did my best.
>
>    My browser crashed during all the junk they tried to interest me in. :^(

Ugh - I copied from my facebook post (see getting word out).  Sorry about
that one,
but the Meetup and Doodle and attached note are the key parts.

a) The Meetup tells it is happening, gives the details for the Doodle poll
for RSVPing,
and may be an easier way to find it.  I'm not sure how many folks will be
interested in different areas.

b) Sorry about your browser.   Everyone runs different stuff.

> > On Thurs from 5:30-7:30pm, there will be time for socializing at a nearby
> > restaurant (British Beer Company).
>
>    I'm thinking!
>

:-)  The idea is to meet other IETFers in the area who aren't in BA.

> > Discussion and more organization can happen on [email-masked].
>
>    I don't understand where they're inviting me to, or what I might
> find there.
>

Ok - I'm not sure what your question is.
For the WG and BoF sessions, there'll be a conference room for people who
have
RSVP'd on the poll to come together in a room, listen to the session, and
presumably
have snarky/interested/relevant/amusing conversations before/during/after.

The mailing list for discussing face-to-face and regional IETF stuff in the
Boston area
is a new mailing list - [email-masked].  This makes more sense to
me as a
place to discuss details and any logistics questions than bothering
everyone on vmeet
or [email-masked].

   (I would, of course, come prepared for flamage over lowercase RFC2119
> "word"s...

I'm pretty sure that level of process fascination is found in a small
subset of folks.

Regards,
Alia

---

From: John Leslie <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 16:12:22 -0400

> Juniper New England Innovation Center will be hosting IETF-95 Hub Work Groups, from April 4-8 Monday to Friday. 

   Glad to hear this!

> http://meetu.ps/e/Brc36/tZx8j/a

   I haven't managed to get past the start page.

   I don't do Facebook.

   I minimize Google whatever-it-is.

   Sign-up via email overloads my browser, and it crashed.

--
John Leslie <[email-masked]>

---

From: Alia Atlas <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 16:47:12 -0400

John,

>    I haven't managed to get past the start page.

This is a meetup page.  It requires no signing in to see or read.

http://doodle.com/poll/fstd9rkdmqdywmvp  is the place to RSVP.  It also
requires no login, though you
will need to fill out a poll.

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s89/sh/c59e7ffc-1eae-428c-ab3b-a9148755208e/ac562995f7429b5ec433d43d8f1e678a
has the details of the various WG sessions planned in each time-slot.

   I don't do Facebook.

not needed

>    I minimize Google whatever-it-is.

not involved or relevant

>    Sign-up via email overloads my browser, and it crashed.

No clue, not enough information, and not tech support.

I am glad you are enthusiastic - and if you have better ideas for
low-energy ways to organize,
you are welcome to do so as well or contribute.

Ravi is using common free websites to make it easy to provide a free way
for IETFers in the Boston
area to get together.   Please do adjust your expectations.

If your goal is "of the sessions (including the social get-together), these
sound interesting, but I can't use doodle to RSVP", that's one thing.
Your responses, however, seem to be
indicating an expectation of "please support me ignoring modern websites
and technology - how dare you use
sites that don't work on my unusual setup".

I really do appreciate that you are trying - but as one of the first
general responses, this is incredibly
frustrating to anyone thinking of doing something similar in the future.

Can you please think about and be clear on precisely what you are asking
for?

Regards,
Alia

--
> _______________________________________________
> Ietf-hub-boston mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-hub-boston
>

---

From: John Leslie <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 17:14:55 -0400

> you are welcome to do so as well or contribute.

   The point is: I don't know what I'd be offering alternatives _to_

> area to get together.   Please do adjust your expectations.

   My expectations are that I'll stay home. :^(

> sound interesting, but I can't use doodle to RSVP", that's one thing.

   At this point, I have nothing to "sound" interesting or boring.

   I have gone through the iesg.org agenda; and I came up with WGs of
possible interest to me:

	dtn
	iccrg
	babel
	lpwan
	arcing
	lurk
	rtcweb
	opsec
	capport
	tsvarea
	6man
	rmcat
	avtcore
	mptcp
	tsvwg
	netvc
	saag
	stir
	avtext
	tcpinc
	clue

   Of these, only rtcweb, rmcat, and tsvwg could justify a trip to
Boston by themselves, though I could be convinced to join some folks
there who have a serious interest in some IRTF group(s).

   But that's really not the point.

> sites that don't work on my unusual setup".

   I am careful to say what I _do_ mean: I can't help it if some folks
read something quite different into my words. (Actually, I am skilled
in English phrasing to avoid ambiguities; but if I avoided them all,
nobody would last through my magnum-opus.)

> frustrating to anyone thinking of doing something similar in the future.

   What's frustrating is the lack of traffic on this list.

   Please feel free to call me any names that come to mind.

> Can you please think about and be clear on precisely what you are asking

   No... I'm not really asking for anything: just trying for some traffic
on the list.

---

From: Ofer Inbar <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 16:26:28 -0500

On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 04:47:12PM -0400,
> This is a meetup page.  It requires no signing in to see or read.

Although I'm not planning to attend, I did look at the link.
http://meetu.ps/e/Brc36/tZx8j/a redirects me to:
  https://secure.meetup.com/register/?ctx=ref

The content is,

----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Join Ravi in Juniper Networks Meetup New England

 Join us and be the first to know when new meetups are scheduled

 [Sign up with Facebook] button
 [Login with Google] button

 [Log in] or [sign up] with email

 "This is a group for anyone interested in Juniper Networks. All
 customers, partners and employees are welcome. I started this group
 to foster education and training for those interested in Juniper
 Networks. Looking forward to exploring what's happening in Data
 Centers, core switching, networking, NFV, SDN, Web 2.0, network
 security and routing."

 Not interested? [Find other Meetups]
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Presumably you have to log in to see more information such as where,
when, what sessions, etc.
  -- Cos

---

From: Alia Atlas <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 17:38:58 -0400

Hi John,

>    The point is: I don't know what I'd be offering alternatives _to_

I did specify in my email to vmeet and ietf which WGs are included.
Basically,
they are ones that Ravi or others were known to be interested in.  As I
specified
in my email to vmeet (that you replied to there):

"The WGs or BoF sessions that are planned are: TEAS, Babel BoF, Spring,
IDR,
DetNet, MPLS, PCE, Accord BoF, BESS, I2RS, Anima, and RTGWG. "

>    My expectations are that I'll stay home. :^(

Which is sad - I'm not sure where you are based in the area.  :-(
I know that Rich Salz had in mind another get-together after IETF95.
Please do suggest/organize something interesting to you too!
We're boot-strapping this bottom-up because every location is different.
I happen to live in Arlington, myself.

>    I have gone through the iesg.org agenda; and I came up with WGs of
Babel is one of the sessions that Ravi has scheduled.

>    But that's really not the point.

Discussing which WGs you are interested is a way of seeing if others are
interested too.  I'm sure that you understand that as someone involved in
Routing, Ravi has picked a lot of routing WGs where he knows there are
others at Juniper also interested and active.

There's no way that one site can really do all 7 tracks or so and there'd be
dreadful attendance if we tried.   I think the benefit of trying for
face-to-face
interaction is going for the equivalent of hallway conversations.  I don't
know
what'll work for us.  Obviously, in Boston we have a lot of very experienced
IETFers, including those who participate occasionally and primarily on the
mailing lists.  Since what, IMHO, the IETF needs is more developers who
participate less intensely, I personally feel that getting remote hubs and
geographic
groups happening is important.

> nobody would last through my magnum-opus.)

Well, I hear you being frustrated and, I'm an engineer, I want to try and
solve problems.  I've read several of your magnum-opuses ;-)

People go to the tools they are familiar with.  It's going to take
discussion
as a group to understand the pros and cons - but first, let's focus on the
technical discussions because that's what will help bind us together as a
group.

>    What's frustrating is the lack of traffic on this list.

True enough.  Perhaps folks don't know what to talk about yet.  It's easier
once
we've gotten together.

Maybe we could do on-list introductions?

>    Please feel free to call me any names that come to mind.

Not necessary :-)  Ad hominens are not productive or necessary.

>    No... I'm not really asking for anything: just trying for some traffic

Ok.  I'm trying to get people enthusiastic about trying this remote hub
idea
and seeing if we can get some group interactions based on geography.  We
have
so many IETFers here that it seems plausible.

Regards,
Alia

---

From: Alia Atlas <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 17:41:02 -0400

Ofer,

Actually, the details for this particular meetup event say:

"Hello Juniper NE Meet Up Group!

IETF-95 Remote Hub will be held April 4 – 8th, 2016 hosted at Juniper's New
England Innovation Center in Westford, MA.   Remote-hub is a new concept
for IETF. The goal is to encourage greater IETF participation and build
local IETF communities.

There are several working groups listed in the agenda including MPLS, TEAS,
Babel TOF, IDR, Detnet, PCF and more.

Here are steps to follow for registration (please rsvp using the directions
below and not thru MeetUp):

1. Click the polling link

http://doodle.com/pol... <http://doodle.com/poll/fstd9rkdmqdywmvp>

2. Visit Evernote for a list of the working group and sessions at

https://www.evernote....
<https://www.evernote.com/shard/s89/sh/c59e7ffc-1eae-428c-ab3b-a9148755208e/ac562995f7429b5ec433d43d8f1e678a>

3. Select the time slots in doodle based on WG meetings.

4. If you are signing up for social hour, please sign up for 17:30-19:30
slot of Thursday April 7th.

Please register using the doodle poll as soon as possible since seating is
limited!

About Boston Remote Hub

The Objective of the remote hub is to encourage greater IETF participation,
to provide a facility to live/interactive participation of IETF
conferences.  Also build this into a more organized remote hub and also
have an easy way to get-together for chats and a beer or two when the IETF
isn’t meeting. Frequency and topic to be determined by the membership, but
emphasis is on decidedly casual. For additional information, please contact
Ravi at [masked].

"

I think that Ravi just re-used the existing Juniper Meetup to reduce effort.

Regards,

Alia

On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 5:26 PM, Ofer Inbar <[email-masked]> wrote:

> > > > Juniper New England Innovation Center will be hosting IETF-95 Hub
> Work
> > > Groups, from April 4-8 Monday to Friday.
> > >
> > >    Glad to hear this!
> > >

---

From: John Leslie <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 18:29:33 -0400

>> The point is: I don't know what I'd be offering alternatives _to_

   (For folks who don't already know: there's zero danger of Alia and me
going postal: we have to work together on IESG telechats. ;^)

> I did specify in my email to vmeet and ietf which WGs are included.

   This didn't come through clearly.

   The most helpful presentation would be:
- location (including parking questions);
- times it will be open;
- who to contact with questions;
- sessions currently intended to be covered;
- tools available, room capacity, etc...

> specified in my email to vmeet (that you replied to there):

   and, of course, it should be specified _here_.

> IDR, DetNet, MPLS, PCE, Accord BoF, BESS, I2RS, Anima, and RTGWG. "

   And now it has been. :^)

>> My expectations are that I'll stay home. :^(

   There's nothing wrong with using "common free websites"; but it's not
very "inclusive". I suggest that more thought be put in how to get the
message across in mailing-list format, withouth expecting all folks to
use the same "free tools" you use yourself.

> Which is sad - I'm not sure where you are based in the area.  :-(

   I'm based in Southern New Hampshire. I commuted to Route 128 for many
years; but I'm older and wiser now. (And the drive really _is_ worse!)

> I happen to live in Arlington, myself.

   Hmm... I've seen some successful meetings north of 128... but I'm
not in a position to organize one myself. I think that it would be
easier _after_ IETF-95 finished and folks recover.

> others at Juniper also interested and active.

   That is how it should be.

   I followed RTG for a number of years, but no longer operate my own
BGP speaker. I'm more into Transport now...

> There's no way that one site can really do all 7 tracks or so and there'd
> be dreadful attendance if we tried.

   Nonetheless, folks choosing to attend one session _will_ need to figure
out what _they_ do for the rest of the day. An hour drive each way makes
it expensive (in time) for me to attend one session in Boston.

> I think the benefit of trying for face-to-face interaction is going for
> the equivalent of hallway conversations.

   These _are_ important; but only if you catch up with the right people.

> I don't know what'll work for us. Obviously, in Boston we have a lot of
> very experienced IETFers, including those who participate occasionally
> and primarily on the mailing lists.

   Alas, they're pretty quiet on _this_ list...

> Since what, IMHO, the IETF needs is more developers who participate
> less intensely, I personally feel that getting remote hubs and
> geographic groups happening is important.

   But the conflicts inherent in an IETF-week schedule would seem to
make it difficult to get them together with experienced IETF-goers.

> Maybe we could do on-list introductions?

   Does this count?

---

From: Alia Atlas <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 18:50:31 -0400

> going postal: we have to work together on IESG telechats. ;^)

Yup - and you already do lots for the IETF and care deeply.  I know that
dealing with the IESG telechats is it's own joy ;-)

> - tools available, room capacity, etc...

Right - it's in Westford, MA at the Juniper facility, which is off of 495.
There is plenty of parking.

>    and, of course, it should be specified _here_.

One disadvantage of  trying to pull this together for the first time and
quickly
is not being sure how and where to discuss/advertise the remote hub.  I've
been
using social media (since Ravi doesn't much) as well as the IETF mailing
lists.
All of those go back to the same note and information.

I agree that next time having more clear information in the announcement
sent
here would be good.  There's a balance between too much information and
duplication too.

> use the same "free tools" you use yourself.

Sure - but Doodle polls are being commonly used by a number of folks in the
IETF community.  In this case, that's how to RSVP and other methods would
require significant work on the part of the organizer.

> years; but I'm older and wiser now. (And the drive really _is_ worse!)

Sure - I have a reverse commute.  In this case, the planned remote hub is
off of 495, so hopefully more convenient for you.

> easier _after_ IETF-95 finished and folks recover.

Agreed and that can include those who are going to BA.  However, one
advantage
of BA is that the time-zone is really conducive to doing a remote hub
during reasonable
and even mostly business hours in Boston.

In this case, Ravi was interested and motivated and there's a reasonably
sized group of
people at Juniper who are interested.   Remember also, that getting a group
of 5 or 10
folks together for a session is a really good number and successful.

> it expensive (in time) for me to attend one session in Boston.

I understand completely!  That's why there's a specific time for social and
maybe
folks will be interested in lunch before or after.

>    These _are_ important; but only if you catch up with the right people.

Sure - but whom the right people are depends on what a person is working on.
Maybe it's getting to show off a proto-type and discuss issues found?
Maybe
it's brainstorming about how to solve a problem or get a draft written or
moving...
At the least, sharing ideas and hearing about things out of one's immediate
focus
will encourage/provide better cross-area or cross-WG discussion/review.

>    Alas, they're pretty quiet on _this_ list...

And thanks for pointing that out :-)  I did start the introductions thread.

> make it difficult to get them together with experienced IETF-goers.

I agree that it'd be good and important to get together at other times too.

> Maybe we could do on-list introductions?

Nope ;-)

Regards,
Alia

---

From: "Salz, Rich" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 05:05:07 +0000

>    Please feel free to call me any names that come to mind.

Impatient is a word that comes to mind.

The list has barely existed for a week.  And most of the initial folks are busy getting ready to attend in BA,  I expect.

It's great that Ravi offered to host something for those not doing the flight.  Thanks!

	/r$, list creator.