Subject: [Ietf-languages] Are BCP 47 collective language codes more suitable for zonal auxiliary languages than the "art" (Artificial) code?

From: Yaroslav Serhieiev <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2021 07:46:03 +0200

The essence of auxiliary zonal constructed languages is to facilitate
communication between speakers of languages that belong to the same
group, see examples:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Romance_language
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Slavic_language
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Germanic_language

Therefore, when picking the most accurate IETF BCP 47 language code
for such languages, the following dilemma arises:

1. On the one hand, the said languages are artificial, and there is a
straightforward choice to pick art-x-langname for such cases. That
works well for art-x-tokipona, art-x-solresol and so on.

2. On the other hand, the zonal languages, albeit being constructed,
clearly have their genetic relation to the living languages, and even
more so, can be well interpreted by automatic translation tools, e.g.,
Google Translate:

Thus, isn't it more accurate to use such language codes as
roa-x-neolatin, gem-x-folkspra, sla-x-interslv instead of generic
art-x-... codes?

Is there a resolution in BCP47 itself for this dilemma? If not, are
there strong arguments against the second solution (with the
collective language codes)?

Thanks in advance,
Yaroslav.

P. S.  On the more practical side (here I attached a screenshot from
LibreOffice with Hunspell dictionaries for Interslavic language), the
software support is close to zero in both cases, be it art-... or
sla-..., giving a second-class citizen experience for anyone who tries
to strictly follow the recommendations. After a discussion with LO
developers in their Bugzilla tracker, we checked that none of the
potentially correct codes (art, sla) is present in the Unicode CLDR
registry, which makes me wonder if they ever will be added there?

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From: "Doug Ewell" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2021 22:05:47 -0700

> registry, which makes me wonder if they ever will be added there?

I'm not sure how CLDR would go about adding locale information for any of the "collection" language tags, for the simple reason that these tags represent multiple languages. Any locale information that would be correct for one member of the collection would not necessarily be correct, and might be profoundly wrong, for other members.

There is a separate CLDR mailing list; details are at https://corp.unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users . (Sorry to keep redirecting you to different mailing lists, but this group does not control what goes into CLDR, although some of the main players happen to be here.)

--
Doug Ewell, CC, ALB | Lakewood, CO, US | ewellic.org

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From: Yaroslav Serhieiev <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 14:04:12 +0200

Hello, Doug!

Thanks for the clarification on the post scriptum, I'll allocate time
later to contact CLDR about that request.

As for the remaining (and initial part) of this letter – my question
still stands unresolved, this is why I'm replying to raise the
visibility.

I understand that the safest option is to use `art` code, but I want
to check the probability, just in case, whether we may use a way more
accurate code with a private extension, while Interslavic language is
still awaiting ISO-639-3 code assignment.
There's a lot of ongoing development in Interslavic projects and a
definitive answer to which temporary code we should use – `art-x-...`
or `sla-x-...` will bring some order to the minor chaos we have across
applications and libraries.

Best regards,
Yaroslav.

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From: John Cowan <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 14:34:02 -0500

> applications and libraries.

Well, the English Wikipedia page classifies it as a constructed language,
as do the Russian, Polish, and Croatian counterparts.  The Interslavic wiki
says it is a Slavic language.  These represent the "outsider" and "insider"
views.  My view is that f the typical Interslavic user thinks of it as a
Slavic language, then 'sla' is better; otherwise 'art'.  There are no
fixed rules for this.

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From: Yaroslav Serhieiev <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 22:42:07 +0200

Thanks for the clarification.

We conducted internal voting on our Discord server and have chosen
"art-x-interslv" as the preferred  choice.

Best regards,
Yaroslav.