Subject: [imap5] remove mailboxes from IMAP5

From: Mark Crispin <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 11:22:06 -0700

If you really want to simplify things in IMAP5, then mailboxes should be
removed entirely, and in its place the keywords functionality should be
expanded to be more servicable and perhaps redefined to be more of a
virtual mailbox.

This would have the effect of making IMAP5 export the type of mail store
seen in Gmail, Hotmail, etc.

This would remove the COPY, CREATE, DELETE, RENAME, LIST, and
LSUB commands.  It would also remove the \Deleted and \Draft flags, and
and redefine EXPUNGE to be "empty trash".

INBOX, TRASH, JUNK, DRAFTS, and SENT would all be predefined
mandatory keywords.  Probably ALL should be there too.

There would be no more need for UIDVALIDITY; and UIDs would be
globally unique in the user's space so the "put back" problem doesn't exist.

Yes, this proposal is extremely mischievous.

But if you don't like it, you had better come up with a better reason than
"it doesn't play well with my legacy mail store".

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

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From: Timo Sirainen <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 23:50:30 +0300

> expanded to be more servicable and perhaps redefined to be more of a

That could make shared mailboxes a bit difficult.

> globally unique in the user's space so the "put back" problem  

Delete user + create user back could still mess up the UIDs.

> "it doesn't play well with my legacy mail store".

I've been planning on doing something similar (mailbox list <->  
keyword sync) optionally in any case..

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From: Mark Crispin <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 14:15:46 -0700

> That could make shared mailboxes a bit difficult.

I see no sign that anybody really cares about shared mailboxes.  The
functionality is rarely-used and most MUAs have no way to utilize them.

The functionality can be duplicated in other ways, e.g., by putting desired
shared message(s) in the user's space.

> Delete user + create user back could still mess up the UIDs.

Not if UIDs are globally unique; and with 64-bit UIDs there is no reason
for them not to be.

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From: Arnt Gulbrandsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 15:19:01 +0200

> "it doesn't play well with my legacy mail store".

"Many people use mailboxes for their existing mail archives, which 
sometimes go decades back and would be painful to restructure."

Arnt

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From: Timo Sirainen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 09:37:32 -0400

> sometimes go decades back and would be painful to restructure."

Nothing would prevent the server from using mailboxes internally. For  
example by mapping that messages in "imapext" mailbox show up in IMAP5  
using "imapext" keyword.

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From: Arnt Gulbrandsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:22:24 +0200

> example by mapping that messages in "imapext" mailbox show up in IMAP5 

Yes, and created as usual, and deleted as usual, and perhaps even 
renamed. Soon you may have a bit of a problem distinguishing mailboxes 
from that which you have.

Personally I don't care one way or another. I'm just saying that people 
have large archives, and want to access them, and want to add to them, 
and they have procedures and organization. It must be possible to read 
old mail, and it must be possible to add new categories, whether you 
call those categories "flags", "keywords" or "mailboxes".

Arnt