Subject: Re: AN interesting article. FYI... contd

From: Tim Hartrick <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:33:01 -0700 (PDT)

> 
> the author's bio line
> 
>   Richard Adhikari is a leading journalist on advanced-IP issues for several
>   major publications, including The Wall Street Journal, and is a regular
>   contributor to Planet IT.
> 
> does not speak well for the wsj
> 

It is rather pitiful to see that becoming a "leading journalist" these
days requires neither mastery of the English language nor fundamental
understanding of the subject matter.  A truly amazing combination of ham-
handed writing and ignorance.

Tim Hartrick
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From: Dave Marquardt <[email-masked]>
Date: 27 Aug 1999 09:02:58 -0500

> handed writing and ignorance.

Well, it was an opinion piece, but one ought to back up one's opinion
with facts.

-Dave

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From: Greg <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:31:13 -0500

Indeed, I cannot see how one with such shortsightedness could become an authority
in the matter. Lucky Idiot comes to mind...

Clearly journalistic standards are not what they once were as it seems the media
just can't resist giving idiots a podium to scream from.

That's my two cents on Mr. Richard Adhikari.

As far as planet IT...

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:05:16 -0500

> Well, it was an opinion piece, but one ought to back up one's opinion

	Well-informed or not (apparently not in this case), it is 
articles like this that help in shaping consumer desire or 
apprehension for new products and technologies.  The article may not
be useful for technical implementation information (or accurate facts
of any sort), but it does tell us a lot about what some common
opposition to IPv6 will use as arguments.  As such, we should be
aware of these arguments, and make sure we can get out the right message.
We can dismiss it out of hand, or we can use it to help shape our own 
advocacy efforts...

	Imagine that some CIO has read this article and then asks you, 
"So, why should I buy into this whole IPv6 thing?  What about these 
infrasctructure costs?  What about the compatibility issues?"  How would you 
respond (other than just pointing out that the author hadn't a clue)?

-andrew

-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Kephart, AIX TCP/IP        These are my opinions only...IBM might  |
| SMTP: [email-masked]     agree, but I wouldn't count on it.      |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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From: Pete Loshin <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:43:44 -0400

At 11:05 AM 8/27/99 -0500, [email-masked] wrote:

>...The article may not

So, IPv6 is a gratuitous upgrade, a plot on the part of competing vendors,
colluding with each other to scam customers?

If that kind of argument held water with executives, do you think Microsoft
would be on its way to becoming a trillion-dollar company? (Before you
flame me, Microsoft is certainly not the only offender with what some
people might consider to be gratuitous upgrades, just the most successful.)

How many new versions of Ethernet have we seen since IPv4 was rolled out?
I'd say that upgrading the link layer is far more intrusive than upgrading
the network layer, yet it's been done.

>respond (other than just pointing out that the author hadn't a clue)?

I'd give the CIO a copy of my book, _IPv6 Clearly Explained_ (Morgan
Kaufmann, 1999). Then, I'd start throwing buzzwords around, like
"competitive advantage" and "value proposition" while I explain IPv6's
technical merits and the kinds of things you can do with that you just
can't do with IPv4.

BTW, re: CMP (now part of Miller Freeman), the article about deploying IPv6
that so many of the participants of this list helped me write this spring
for Data Communications (which will publish its last hard copy edition on
October 21) has not yet been published--and might not make it into print,
though I'm told it is supposed to make it into the last issue.

-pl

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:50:57 -0500

> colluding with each other to scam customers?

	No, but that's what the article implies, and -- unless he knows 
better -- the reader will understand to be the case...

> people might consider to be gratuitous upgrades, just the most successful.)

	A perfect example, since they encounter (deservedly or not, 
depending on your perspective) this kind of "gratuitous upgrade"
attack regularly.  They consistently win because they are very good
at redirecting the discussion away from what it costs, and focus 
it on what is gained (or perceived to be gained).  They learn what the 
opposing arguments are (valid or not) and then directly combat them 
or direct attention away from them.  It isn't because the execs aren't
swayed by these kinds of bogus arguments, but because they (Microsoft)
know how to fight them.

> technical merits and the kinds of things you can do with that you just

	An excellent response, and exactly the kind of thing I was 
trying to elicit.  If that CIO is swayed by buzzwords, we should respond
with buzzwords.  If that CIO is swayed by technical merits, we 
should respond with technical merits.  We have more than enough of
each to go around, and both are useful in the appropriate situations.

> though I'm told it is supposed to make it into the last issue.

	I do hope it makes it...I'll look forward to reading it.  
Positive press is crucial to general acceptance.

-andrew

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From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:14:10 +0100

Andrew and all,

  Thank you andrew for clarifying this.  It is part of the reason I posted
the article to begin with.  Sheeeesh, some folks are touchy!

> respond (other than just pointing out that the author hadn't a clue)?

Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman INEGroup (Over 95k members strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number:  972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

---

From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:35:13 +0100

Andrew and all,

> better -- the reader will understand to be the case...

  I am not sure I completely agree.  Yes it is true that the author is bias
to a degree, I must admit.  But to characterize other competing vendors
as "Scam Artists" is over the top IMHO, and this sort of rhetoric should
be discouraged...  No offense to you Pete.  >;)

> swayed by these kinds of bogus arguments, but because they (Microsoft)

  Well I just don't trust MS that well.  Too many bad experiences I suppose.
And when it comes to networking and DNS, MS is a pee wee...

> each to go around, and both are useful in the appropriate situations.

  Good point, if you can indeed carry the day, so to speak.  One must
understand that IPv6 is not a panacea by any stretch of the imagination...

> Positive press is crucial to general acceptance.

  I do too!  And Pete, if not let me know privately I may be able to help
with several publishers...

Regards,