Subject: RE: Changing RS Reply Timing for Mobile IPv6

From: "Bound, Jim" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:39:09 -0500

James,

   ........................................Determination of 
   how this router is designated is outside the scope of this
   document. An RA that is immediately unicast to the sender rather
   than delayed is known as a "fast RA".

I do not believe it should be outside the scope of this draft.  I think
it imperative that this be defined clearly and a method proposed before
FAST RA can be bought into by IPv6 implementors.  

I also believe at this time the IESG should require a fairly good set of
reports from multiple implementations of this and other proposals for
wireless efforts that want to change DAD parameters and extend
attributes to ND and Stateless Addrconf.  Right now the only work within
this space that has received the test of fire at UNH, ETSI, or TAHI as
examples is MIPv6.  These tests beat hard on IPv6 implementation
enhancements as was just done for MIPv6 D-18 in Sophia Antipolis at
ETSI.  I would suggest to the IESG doing any changes to ND or Addrconf
without serious hard core testing from this work is dangerous.

If you, I, and others believe this is important then the code will get
done for this and Optimistic DAD and show up at the tests.  Otherwise
this is purely a research and at best AD exercise.  IPv6 is now being
deployed we cannot mess with DAD or Addr Conf in casual ways any more
than we do with IP (for v4), TCP, or RTT algrorithm for TCP as examples.

I also believe all these efforts should begin to think like MIPv6 has
and that is they are separate documents and I strongly am against any
enhancments to ND or Addrconf from Fast RA, Optimistic DAD etc.  They
should be new RFCs.

All this also presents new security problems too that does not exist in
current ND and Addrconf on wired links.  The base reason is that these
mess with the ND architecture and wired links that are firewalled or PKI
protected are more insulated than say 802.11b.
That being said I would like to see all security sections for this work
define what new security problems exist simply because of this behavior
not just say exists now in DAD or whatever.  

None of these options should be permitted for wire links (status quo) at
all.
That gives me an idea at least how the router to do Fast RA should be
defined.

I would also like to see hard core router or switch "PRODUCT" developers
comment on this work and other work.  I know routing code but not like
those that build ASICs and the like.
I would like to hear them say the pain and gain they feel or see from
this strategy.

/jim
[Have you ever seen the rain coming down on a sunny day]

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From: "James Kempf" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:39:00 -0800

Hi Jim,

I hear your concerns quite clearly.

One possibility would be to make the FastRA and Optimistic DAD work specific to
MIPv6 wireless access routers, and therefore not a general IPv6 router
enhancement. I think this would address your concern about impacting current
wired router product plans. It really is only for mobility, as a wired host
rarely to never changes its link.

That would move the work to the MIP group, as a separate but complementary item
to the current FMIPv6 work. The optimized MIPv6 work is still not quite ready
for prime time, but it is getting there. Of course, this would require approval
of the ADs, MIP WG chairs, and MIP WG.

How does that sound?

            jak

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bound, Jim" <[email-masked]>
To: "James Kempf" <[email-masked]>; "Thomas Narten"
<[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 7:39 AM
Subject: RE: Changing RS Reply Timing for Mobile IPv6