Subject: RE: Harm caused by Simon's proposal

From: "Contreras, Jorge" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 16:37:30 -0500

>I also think we need a better understanding of a remark that Jorge
>made about our ability to produce the desired results by license
t>erms rather than by boilerplate in the RFC text. If I'm not mistaken,
o>nce the IETF Trust acquires the expected rights from ISOC, the
>Trust could issue licenses that *expand* the rights granted by
>the historical boilerplates, at least back to RFC 2220.
>
>    Brian

Yes, but only to the extent IETF/ISOC received those expanded rights from
the authors.  This is a point Harald summarized nicely.  You can't grant
more than you are given.

_______________________________________________
Ipr-wg mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipr-wg

---

From: "Lawrence Rosen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 13:59:08 -0800

Brian Carpenter wrote:
> >I also think we need a better understanding of a remark that 
> Jorge made 
> >about our ability to produce the desired results by license
> >Trust could issue licenses that *expand* the rights granted by the 
> >historical boilerplates, at least back to RFC 2220.

Jorge Contreras responded:
> Yes, but only to the extent IETF/ISOC received those expanded 
> rights from the authors.  This is a point Harald summarized 
> nicely.  You can't grant more than you are given.

And you can insist, as a condition for allowing contributions to be
incorporated into IETF standards in the future, that IETF/ISOC are granted
enough rights to allow recipients to make and distribute copies and
derivative works. 

That is what the license terms *should* guarantee in IETF. Since we are
considering "Simon's proposal," can we stick to that problem rather than
worry now about what rights we got or didn't get in the past? 

/Larry Rosen

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] 
> [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Contreras, Jorge
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 1:38 PM
> To: Brian E Carpenter; Ted Hardie
> Cc: Sam Hartman; [email-masked]
> Subject: RE: Harm caused by Simon's proposal
> 
> 
> >I also think we need a better understanding of a remark that 
> Jorge made 
> >about our ability to produce the desired results by license
> >Trust could issue licenses that *expand* the rights granted by the 
> >historical boilerplates, at least back to RFC 2220.
> >
> >    Brian
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but only to the extent IETF/ISOC received those expanded 
> rights from the authors.  This is a point Harald summarized 
> nicely.  You can't grant more than you are given.
>

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 18:52:27 +0100

Larry,

> worry now about what rights we got or didn't get in the past? 

Unfortunately, that would be irresponsible. Most of the specs that the
Internet runs on are already published, and since RFC 2220 they carry
some form of boilerplate referring to ISOC copyright. Prior to that
the rights are even less clear. Certainly we can try to make things
better for future specs, but we can't ignore the older ones either.
However, they are two separate questions. I would suggest that once we
conclude on what we want for the future, it will become a rather
technical question for the (future) IETF Trust to see to what extent
it can obtain and license additional rights for existing RFCs, in order
to make things happen the way the IETF wants them to happen.

    Brian