Subject: ISSUES -3 new additions for the ISSUES list.

From: "todd glassey" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:01:11 -0800

Harald ALSO in response to your posting this day - I want to put
 into the record the following three ISSUES:

    1) The first ISSUE is the requirement in a contract based relationship
to understand both the 'intent of the participant's in the deal since in
today's court's the contract is where it starts but contract terms morph and
are soft unless they are defended. That is to say that it is common that
contracts are amended by agreement in the operations models between parties
and not necessarily on the original paper they signed (or in this case -
didn't sign).

    2) The second ISSUE is a competent review of the BCP78 3.3, and the
legal process the IETF uses to determine whether there is an exclusive right
created when the Submitter files a derivative work with the IETF per BCP78
3.3.a. The question is whether this filing creates and Exclusive Rights
within the IETF since this would by law require a wet signature on the
conveyance against the Derivative work itself irrelevant of any releases
additionally needed against the content for Title 35 or Title 17 issues.

    3) The third ISSUE is that the BCP78 3.3.a(e) section  gives all rights
to the IP away - it reads:

3.3.  Granting of Rights and Permissions
   By submission of a Contribution, each person actually submitting the
   Contribution, and each named co-Contributor, is deemed to agree to
   the following terms and conditions, and to grant the following
   rights, on his or her own behalf and on behalf of the organization
   the Contributor represents or is sponsored by (if any) when
   submitting the Contribution.

   a. To the extent that a Contribution or any portion thereof is
      protected by copyright and other rights of authorship, the
      Contributor, and each named co-Contributor, and the organization
      he or she represents or is sponsored by (if any) grant a
      perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, royalty-free, world-wide
      right and license to the ISOC and the IETF under all intellectual
      property rights in the Contribution:
...

  (E) to extract, copy, publish, display, distribute, modify and
          incorporate into other works, for any purpose (and not limited
          to use within the IETF Standards Process) any executable code
          or code fragments that are included in any IETF Document (such
          as MIB and PIB modules), subject to the requirements of
          Section 5 (it also being understood that the licenses granted
          under this paragraph (E) shall not be deemed to grant any
          right under any patent, patent application or other similar
          intellectual property right disclosed by the Contributor under
          [RFC3979]).
-----

The ISSUE with 3.3.a(E) is that  it gives the entire work away. The IP is
defined by US Law under Title 35 and Title 17 BOTH - and since those rights
are tied together, when mitigated by the terms (and not limited to use
within the IETF Standards Process) means that this IP is usable by anyone
for anything anywhere. PERIOD... it just gave it all away - Oh ? you say
how? - simple - Under Title 35 the written description of the IP is no
different than say a pseudocode model or program fragment - they both a
representations of some algorithm and that is what is being protected.

So if the Copyright License 'gives away all rights for any and all uses by
anyone' - then that's it - the patent rights are toast as is the rest of the
Submitter's rights unless these were all disclosed in the filing per RFC3979
prior to the filing. The problem with IP is that you dont get to send it to
people like a POST CARD (and yes there is a reason that TOA 'POST CARD' is
in caps too), and then expect the privacy or disclosure laws to not kick in
with regard to the compromising of the ownership of the IP.

The IETF's problem is that it is given publication rights to create
standards and not to amass a critical-mass of IP to wield as a source of
financial support.

Todd Glassey

---------------------------------------------

Filed as issue #1199.

--On 10. februar 2006 17:07 +0100 Simon Josefsson <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Please add the following issue:
>
> What license should the IETF grant to third parties on Contributions?
>
> Some discussion:
>
> That was the issue I tried to raise with my draft.
>
> Scott's draft does touches on outbound rights, but I believe it would
> be more useful to remove that material from Scott's draft.  Then
> Scott's draft would fulfil the following WG work item but NO more.
> That will simplify review, and speed up processing, since the outbound
> rights issue is more problematic.  Certainly, if the current draft is
> last called, I will comment on that part.
>
> [proposed WG charter:]
>    - An update to RFC 3978 (BCP) that attempts to specify an useful
>      set of rights granted to the IETF by authors
>
> What rights the IETF should grant to third parties should be resolved
> either by another update to RFC 3978, or by recommendations to the IPR
> Trust.  My recommendations is another update to RFC 3978.
>
> Thanks,
> Simon
>
> Harald Tveit Alvestrand <[email-masked]> writes:
>
>> The following are the open issues being tracked:
>>
>> # 1166 Quotations from RFCs and I-Ds
>>
>> # 1167 Excerpt labeling
>>
>> # 1168 Non-code excerpts
>>
>> # 1169 Modified excerpts
>>
>> # 1175 How can code be distinguished from non-code?
>>
>> Thus far, we have had no specific requests for more issues.
>>
>> If you want to raise a new issue on the list, please write ISSUE in
>> the subject line of your message.
>>
>>                 Harald, for the chairs
>
>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Harald Tveit Alvestrand" <[email-masked]>
To: "Simon Josefsson" <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 12:16 AM
Subject: #1199 Re: ISSUE: outbound license on future RFCs

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> Ipr-wg mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipr-wg
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