Subject: [irtf-discuss] Update on "Challenges for the Internet Routing Infrastructure Introduced by Changes"

From: "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 09:59:56 -0000

Hi all,

We received some feedback (thanks) on draft-king-irtf-challenges-in-routing
and posted an update at
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-king-irtf-challenges-in-routing/

To recap, the draft presents a brief survey of technologies related to IP
address semantic proposals and describes the challenges to the existing
routing system that they present. It then summarizes the opportunities for
research into new or modified routing protocols to make use of new address
semantics. It does not pass comment on the advisability or practicality of
any of the solutions.

The intention, therefore, is to try to get a broad view of the work that has
been done, is in hand, and needs to be done. The document is not attempting
a detailed technical analysis, and is not proposing technical solutions.

We would really appreciate comments, feedback, and pointers to related work.

Thanks,
Adrian (for the authors)

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From: Marie-Jose Montpetit <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 07:23:40 -0500

I think it would be nice if your document was putting more focus on the proposed architecture and the applications that could need your new addressing. Also I think there are three layers here: address (IP or IP like), meta data and data. Of course you could route on any or all of them which I think is what you propose. And the more you go from simple ‘this is where I want to go’ into how and why complexity increases and speed goes down. Maybe you should also highlight performance aspects  more clearly. There is a link to the COIN work where discovery and essentially in-router computations would add new potential for routing algorithms.

mjm

Marie-José Montpetit, Ph.D.

> On Feb 24, 2021, at 5:01 AM, Adrian Farrel <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
>

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From: "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 12:44:08 -0000

Thanks Marie-José,

Yes, this is certainly work that is needed.

We should present a little more about the architectures that people are considering, and the split of address/metadata/data is a helpful distinction. In fact, the metadata/data is largely historic, and we're looking at the various proposals to encode information in the address. Perhaps our draft currently has too much information about previous work, and not enough about current proposals -- work in progress!

I just want to note that it's not our new addressing 😊. What we're trying to do is collect information about all of the proposals and research that are out there.

The pointer to COIN is helpful, and we'll try to factor something into the next revision.

Best,
Adrian

-----Original Message-----
From: Marie-Jose Montpetit <[email-masked]> 
Sent: 24 February 2021 12:24
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irtf-discuss] Update on "Challenges for the Internet Routing Infrastructure Introduced by Changes"

mjm

---

From: Marie-Jose Montpetit <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 08:01:40 -0500

Well I guess for IRTF it would be great to talk about the research that is
done or the one you want to propose in the field. You yes very much focus
on “what was”.

mjm

[email-masked]

From: Adrian Farrel <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
Reply: [email-masked] <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
Date: February 24, 2021 at 7:44:13 AM
To: Marie-Jose Montpetit <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked] <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>,
[email-masked]
<[email-masked]>
<[email-masked]>
Subject:  RE: [irtf-discuss] Update on "Challenges for the Internet Routing
Infrastructure Introduced by Changes"

Thanks Marie-José,

We should present a little more about the architectures that people are
considering, and the split of address/metadata/data is a helpful
distinction. In fact, the metadata/data is largely historic, and we're
looking at the various proposals to encode information in the address.
Perhaps our draft currently has too much information about previous work,
and not enough about current proposals -- work in progress!

I just want to note that it's not our new addressing 😊. What we're trying
to do is collect information about all of the proposals and research that
are out there.

The pointer to COIN is helpful, and we'll try to factor something into the
next revision.

Best,
Adrian

-----Original Message-----
From: Marie-Jose Montpetit <[email-masked]>
Sent: 24 February 2021 12:24
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irtf-discuss] Update on "Challenges for the Internet Routing
Infrastructure Introduced by Changes"

I think it would be nice if your document was putting more focus on the
proposed architecture and the applications that could need your new
addressing. Also I think there are three layers here: address (IP or IP
like), meta data and data. Of course you could route on any or all of them
which I think is what you propose. And the more you go from simple ‘this is
where I want to go’ into how and why complexity increases and speed goes
down. Maybe you should also highlight performance aspects more clearly.
There is a link to the COIN work where discovery and essentially in-router
computations would add new potential for routing algorithms.

mjm

---

From: "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 13:17:34 -0000

> Well I guess for IRTF it would be great to talk about the research

> that is done or the one you want to propose in the field. You yes

> very much focus on “what was”. 

Yes 😊

It is substantially easier to talk about what has already been done. And far, far easier to talk about what we already know about.

Hence, this is a call for information. We are trying to do an enhanced literature search by getting everyone to tell us what they know about so that we can add it to the list. That will help us know what is missing from the research topics.

It’s all a bit of a work in progress.

Best,

Adrian

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From: Toerless Eckert <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 19:43:55 +0100

Hi Marie,

Would you like to contribute such content ?

Cheers
    Toerless

On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 07:23:40AM -0500, Marie-Jose Montpetit wrote:
> 
> I think it would be nice if your document was putting more focus on the proposed architecture and the applications that could need your new addressing. Also I think there are three layers here: address (IP or IP like), meta data and data. Of course you could route on any or all of them which I think is what you propose. And the more you go from simple ???this is where I want to go??? into how and why complexity increases and speed goes down. Maybe you should also highlight performance aspects  more clearly. There is a link to the COIN work where discovery and essentially in-router computations would add new potential for routing algorithms.
> 
> mjm
> 
> > ???Hi all,

-- 
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[email-masked]