Subject: Re: [iucg] On graphs and equivalences

From: jefsey <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 21:31:40 +0100

An honnest example of the difficulty for a network engineer to 
address user needs without proper users specs and a usage middleware.
jfc

At 17:08 04/12/2009, Eric Brunner-Williams wrote:
>The assertion that in Script X a casing property is required to form
>persistent resource identifiers appears to be an assumption present in
>   Vaggelis' note on the desirability of an aliasing mechanism between
>two or more directed acyclic subgraphs existing in one or more root
>server entries.
>
>This assertion does not appear to have been proved, and it appears to
>be a special case of a requirement to define equivalence classes for
>characters, or their sequences, and necessarily any subgraphs anchored
>from the nodes where elements of the equivalence classes exist.
>
>An approach, "intermediate tables", was proposed in-protocol during
>the course of the IDN WG. The proposal was not adopted and was not
>incorporated in the IDNA2003 specifications.
>
>Another specification, published as RFC 3743, Joint Engineering Team
>(JET) Guidelines for Internationalized Domain Names (IDN) Registration
>and Administration for Chinese, Japanese, and Korean, proposed a
>solution not dependent upon the correct functioning of the IDNA2003
>protocol.
>
>I lack the subject matter expertise to form an opinion on the
>necessity claim for tonos-free repertoire ("upper case") for the
>meaningful formation of resource identifiers, and therefore the
>necessity to form character equivalence classes.
>
>If the necessity claim arises from "words", then it suffers the same
>defect that the claims made for other "word properties", in that they
>are out of scope for a working group engaged in the specification of
>persistent resource identifiers.
>
>Eric
>_______________________________________________
>Idna-update mailing list
>[email-masked]
>http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/idna-update

---

From: JFC Morfin <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 22:23:23 +0100

The whole misunderstanding Vint plays on is that IDNA is a 
non-Internet application internationalisation of names into internet 
LDH. IDNA2003 was case unreliable preserving due to the DNS case 
preserving ability. IDNA2008 is not case preserving, period. This 
permits IDNAPLUS to build on top of it a user chosen reliable case 
preservation mechanism. I therefore expect Chrome, Chrome OS and 
Google DNS to follow the same principle as Interplus. Because 
Interplus is nothing more than a more complete use of the existing 
DNS architecture.

The problem is that I called for help, so the ICANN namespace would 
not be devastated, or no one (such as the russian mafia) would take 
over the naming and the Internet. Google's cute response is to put 
itself in the challengers position. This will certainly reduce the 
risks of a russian mafia take over. But this will be Googlenet. Now, 
we will see Google presentations, such as "gg--". They will work no 
problem, "gg--" with "ss" and "gs--" with eszett and conversions to 
the propre "xn--" at Google DNS.

The point now is that Google, Microsoft and Interplus standardize 
within the IETF. Vint banned me to prevent that. I appealed to the 
IESG and IESG helped me creating the IUCG so at least the debate 
stays within the IETF and does not switch to ITU as Francis Muguet 
who died in October has started to introduce it. But it is still 
small, has no resource, and no good document writter in English yet 
who knows the 5500 RFC enough.

jfc

At 17:16 04/12/2009, Andrew Sullivan wrote:
>On Fri, Dec 04, 2009 at 11:08:20AM -0500, Eric Brunner-Williams wrote:
>
> > defect that the claims made for other "word properties"
>
>To be fair, we don't need to go that far.  The goal of this WG was to
>"Internationalize LDH".  Since LDH is case-preserving and
>case-sensitive, one could (I do not, but one could) argue that some
>kind of case-preserving case sensitivity is desirable for an
>internationalized version too.  Words or the necessity for resource
>identifiers then doesn't enter in.
>
>A
>
>--
>Andrew Sullivan
>[email-masked]
>Shinkuro, Inc.