Subject: [Jcardcal] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-jcardcal-jcard-05: (with COMMENT)

From: "Spencer Dawkins" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 17:27:36 -0700

Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-jcardcal-jcard-05: No Objection

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COMMENT:
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Just one please-clue-the-AD question ...

In 3.1.  Pre-processing

   vCard uses a line folding mechanism to limit lines of data to a
   maximum line length (typically 72 characters) to ensure maximum
   likelihood of preserving data integrity as it is transported via
   various means (e.g., email) - see Section 3.2 of [RFC6350].  Prior to
   converting vCard data into jCard all folded lines MUST be unfolded.

   vCard data uses an "escape" character sequence for text values and
   property parameter values.  See Section 3.4 of [RFC6350] as well as
   [RFC6868].  When such text elements are converted into jCard, the
   vCard escaping MUST be removed first.  The only escaping that may be
   applied is any escaping mandated by JSON.

Does the order here matter? Would "unfold and remove escapes" and "remove
escapes and unfold" give you the same result?

I peeked at RFC 6350, and I don't THINK the order matters, but wasn't
sure after reading Sections 3.2 and 3.4.

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From: Barry Leiba <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 21:02:14 -0400

> sure after reading Sections 3.2 and 3.4.

That's correct: the order doesn't matter.  And, apart from the fact
that text has to be in one order or another, I don't think the text
specifies an order.  I also don't think it needs to say anything
either way about order.  Do you think it does?

Barry

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From: Spencer Dawkins <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 20:55:42 -0500

> either way about order.  Do you think it does?

Hi, Barry,

I was intrigued by the appearance of "first" in this text.

    [RFC6868].  When such text elements are converted into jCard, the
    vCard escaping MUST be removed first.

Given that that "first" was unscoped, it was reasonable to read this 
text as "first, before converting into jCard", but given that removing 
escaping ALSO said "before converting into jCard" but didn't include the 
word "first", it seemed not UNreasonable to read this text as "remove 
escaping first, then unfold, and then you're ready to convert to jCard".

Given that someone smart confirmed that order doesn't matter, so that if 
any implementers DO read it as saying "remove escaping first, then 
unfold", everything still works, no, I don't think it needs to be changed.

I just wanted to ask before the document becomes an RFC :-)

Thanks,

Spencer

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From: Barry Leiba <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 23:36:03 -0400

>>>     applied is any escaping mandated by JSON.
...
> I was intrigued by the appearance of "first" in this text.

Yes, and the other paragraph says "prior to", which also means
"first".  I think Peter just didn't want to be boring.

b

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From: Barry Leiba <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 23:37:05 -0400

> "first".  I think Peter just didn't want to be boring.

Philipp, not Peter.

b

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From: Simon Perreault <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:46:56 +0200

Le 2013-07-16 03:02, Barry Leiba a écrit :
> That's correct: the order doesn't matter.

Incorrect. The order matters.

Consider this:

X-FOO:bar\
 n

You need to unfold THEN remove escapes. Reverse order in the reverse
direction. The xCard RFC is clear on this. jCard needs to be too.

Simon

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From: Philipp Kewisch <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:21:07 +0200

> direction. The xCard RFC is clear on this. jCard needs to be too.
Yes, sorry for the confusion. How about this text to replace those two 
paragraphs?

    vCard uses a line folding mechanism to limit lines of data to a
    maximum line length (typically 72 characters) to ensure maximum
    likelihood of preserving data integrity as it is transported via
    various means (e.g., email) - see Section 3.2 of [RFC6350].

    [RFC6868].

    When converting from vCard to jCard, lines MUST be unfolded first.
    Afterwards, vCard escaping MUST be removed.  The only escaping that
    may be applied is any escaping mandated by JSON.

---

From: Simon Perreault <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:57:52 +0200

Good. Just one thing:

>    may be applied is any escaping mandated by JSON.

You could also say that the reverse order applies for jCard --> vCard.

Simon

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From: Barry Leiba <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:31:45 -0400

> Incorrect. The order matters.

Ooh, yes, good catch!  It never occurred to me that anyone would do
that... but, of course, it's legal.

Barry

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From: Spencer Dawkins <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:37:01 -0500

> You could also say that the reverse order applies for jCard --> vCard.

OK, so I like Philipp's proposed text, and I should be expecting to see 
a version of this section that includes this text, plus something that 
addresses Simon's point here, is that right?

I'll leave this as a No Objection Comment, instead of a Discuss, because 
we've already discussed this, but please do include the change (whether 
as an IESG Note or as a revised ID, as your document shepherd directs).

Thanks!

Spencer

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From: Peter Saint-Andre <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:43:43 -0600

> as an IESG Note or as a revised ID, as your document shepherd directs).

The official shepherd is on holiday right now. As co-chair and interim
shepherd, I'll say that I'd prefer a revised I-D once the submission
window re-opens and all IESG feedback has been received.

Peter

-- 
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/

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From: Philipp Kewisch <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2013 20:03:54 +0200

On 7/16/13 5:37 PM, Spencer Dawkins wrote:
> OK, so I like Philipp's proposed text, and I should be expecting to 
> see a version of this section that includes this text, plus something 
> that addresses Simon's point here, is that right?
Ok, I've added this paragraph to my original text:

    The reverse order applies when converting from jCard to vCard.
    First, JSON escaping MUST be removed.  Afterwards, vCard escaping
    MUST be applied.  Finally, long lines SHOULD be folded as described
    in [RFC6350].

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From: Spencer Dawkins <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2013 19:58:42 -0500

>    MUST be applied.  Finally, long lines SHOULD be folded as described

Thank you for addressing my comment!

Spencer