Subject: Re: SASLPrep vs Full Stop code points

From: Ienup Sung <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:35:46 -0800 (PST)

Actually that's exactly the problem that I was also talking about since
people will treat the Asian full stops and U+002E differently at Asian
countries and when people tried to register a new user account with let say
3。14 (where it is three, Asian full-stop, and fourteen), the PLAIN based user
account system could say, sorry, we already have 3.14 (that is three point
one four) which is totally different user account name and would deny
the new user account name which will be quite confusing for Asian people.

With regards,

Ienup

] Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:21:08 -0500
] From: Jeffrey Altman <[email-masked]>
] Subject: Re: SASLPrep vs Full Stop code points
] To: [email-masked], [email-masked]
] MIME-version: 1.0
] X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
] X-No-Spam-Score: Local
] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35
] 
] The question is not whether or not the different full stops are used by
] different people in different ways at the user interface level.  The 
] transformations
] we are discussing for use with SASLPrep are specific to the use of the 
] strings
] as Storage and Query strings; not as Display strings.  When a string is 
] to be used
] as a username or a password is there a reason why we should be concerned 
] with
] distinguishing the differences?  If there is not a good reason to 
] preserve the
] differences then there is a reasonable argument to fold them similar to 
] the arguments
] for folding spacing characters.
] 
] Users will always be free to choose one representation over another.  It 
] is only
] on the wire that there should be a distinction.
] 
] Jeffrey Altman
] 
] 
] Ienup Sung wrote:
] 
] >I think there will be problems if we treat the Asian full stops as equivalents
] >to the ASCII decimal point/dot/full stop character simply because the Asian
] >full stops are not equivalent to the ASCII decimal points all the time.
] >In other words, Asian people are and will distinguish (almost implicitly) when
] >to use the Asian/ASCII full stops and when to use the decimal point character;
] >if coerced at the protocol level that the Asian full stops are all
] >mapped to the U+002E for all the cases, people will be, sometimes, confused.
] >
] >I do see the pros of convenience but that will, in my opinion, come in with
] >the price of denying the fact that the Asian full stops are only and
] >conditionally equivalent to the U+002E (when the U+002E means the full stop).
] >In other words, by having the general full stop mappings, we are denying
] >the possibility of Asian people using the full stops and decimal points
] >differently in their user names and passwords.
] >
] >  
] >

---

From: Jeffrey Altman <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:16:25 -0500

It is absolutely a trade off.  Avoidance of end user confusion because they
could not tell the difference between the full stops and the ability to
specify them as different strings.

By choosing to fold the full stops we are saying that we believe that there
will be more confusion by users who try to use one form of full stop when
they should be using another than the confusion which will be caused for
system administrators who desire to create accounts which only differ by
the type of full stop used.

Jeffrey Altman

---

From: Sam Hartman <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 17:11:47 -0500

>>>>> "Ienup" == Ienup Sung <[email-masked]> writes:

    Ienup> Actually that's exactly the problem that I was also talking
    Ienup> about since people will treat the Asian full stops and
    Ienup> U+002E differently at Asian countries and when people tried
    Ienup> to register a new user account with let say 3ã€‚14
    Ienup> (where it is three, Asian full-stop, and fourteen), the
    Ienup> PLAIN based user account system could say, sorry, we
    Ienup> already have 3.14 (that is three point one four) which is
    Ienup> totally different user account name and would deny the new
    Ienup> user account name which will be quite confusing for Asian
    Ienup> people.

OK, then why would people use the Asian full stop in domain names?
What's different about the world of DNS and the world of user names?

Yours in confusion,

--Sam