Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions

From: Yakov Rekhter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:58:16 -0700

Loa,

>From the last L2VPN WG minutes:

   Yakov - question on VPLS LDP.  Must specify at least one default 
      mode for auto-discovery to have interoperable implementations.

   Giles - manual config?

   Yakov - spell it out in spec?

   Vach - OK.

Yet the document still does not incorporate this - quoting from the
latest version of the document:

 6.  Discovery 
    
   Currently, no discovery mechanism has been prescribed for VPLS.  
   There are three potential candidates, [BGP-DISC], [RADIUS-DISC], 
   [LDP-DISC]. 

Before advancing the document, this needs to be fixed.

Yakov.

---

From: Eric Rosen <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:50:51 -0400

> mode for auto-discovery to have interoperable implementations. 

Insofar as the document covers only signaling and data plane, it seems to me
that  the only question  is whether  the signaling  and data  plane specifi-
cations are adequate for ensuring interoperability.

After all,  we wouldn't reject, e.g., the  TCP spec, on the  grounds that it
doesn't tell us how  to figure out who we need to  connect to.  Nor would we
reject, say,  the BGP spec  on the  grounds that it  doesn't tell us  how to
figure out who we should be peering with.

> Giles - manual config? 

It's  probably a  good  idea in  any  event to  require  the capability  for
manually  configuring the  remote endpoints.   If  saying that  helps us  to
eliminate a bit of sophistry, so much the better.

---

From: Yakov Rekhter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:52:16 -0700

Eric,

> cations are adequate for ensuring interoperability.

Just to remind you VPLS, as a *system*, includes not just signaling
and data plane, but discovery as well. So, an interoperable VPLS
solution must include, among other things, interoperable discovery as
well. 
 
> eliminate a bit of sophistry, so much the better. 

That is all I asked for. 

Yakov.

---

From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" <[email-masked]>
Date: 14 Apr 2004 18:19:19 -0400

> solution must include, among other things, interoperable discovery as

	Yakov,

	Although I agree that it seems *preferable* to 
include discovery in a solution (of the automatic
variety), it does seem reasonable for a VPLS system to 
not include discovery (i.e.: manual config) too. I do 
not really consider manual configuration to be in the 
category of discovery, since technically you aren't
discovering anything by entering the information 
yourself. *)  Maybe we are splitting hairs, but saying
something like "an complete solution must include
among other things, discovery OR manual configuration..."
seems more precise.

	--Tom

---

From: Yakov Rekhter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:57:50 -0700

Tom,

> among other things, discovery OR manual configuration..."

We are splitting hairs...

Yakov.

---

From: Loa Andersson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:45:31 +0200

All,

I guess what Yakov is saying is that to be a "complete vpls solution"
some pieces needto be there - including "discovery".

In the discovery design teamm we did include manual configuration
among the technologies that could be used for discover vpls (actually
vpn membership).

As for a particular document, that could be either "complete"
or addressing certain aspects of a vpls system. In Seoul Yakov pointed
out that the discovery were missing in the ldp-vpls draft, and the
editors were saying that they were going to add the manual config
part.

In the <draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-02.txt> this is still missing, and
the editors has recognized this as an oversight, and agreed to do a
quick respin. That will possibly address som other points as well.
We will issue a new wg last call on
draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt as soon as we have. The working
last call on the ldp-vpls is therefore on a short hold.

In my opinion this does not need to stop the review work, you'll just
have to check if the comments you have hs been addressed when the
-03 version is released.

/Loa

Yakov Rekhter wrote:

>>>>Insofar as the document covers only signaling and data plane, it seems to
> 
>  me
> 
>>>>that  the only question  is whether  the signaling  and data  plane speci
> 
> fi-
> 

-- 

Loa Andersson

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