Subject: L2VPN (Re-)charter: VPMS (Virtual Private P2MP unidirectional Service)

From: Shane Amante <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 08:00:37 -0600

Frederic, Florin, Dinesh & Ali,

------Frederic wrote------
 > Just a comment related to multicast:
 > In the goals and milestones sections, you are referring to VPMS (Virtual
 > Private Multicast Servcice), I would suggest to introduce this 
service in
 > the charter itself as a new L2VPN to be added to the 3 existing VPLS, 
VPWS
 > and IPLS.
 >
 > Virtual Private Multicast Service (VPMS) -- A Layer 2 service that
 > Provides point-to-multipoint connectivity for a variety of link layers,
 > including Frame Relay, ATM, Ethernet, PPP, etc., across an IP or
 > MPLS-enabled IP PSN.
 >
 > VPLS, VPWS and VPMS operate over Pseudowires (PWs) as defined by the
 > PWE3 WG.

Good point.  I'll add the last two paragraphs you've suggested to the 
charter.  And, see below for the contingency on PWE3 successfully 
chartering P2MP PW's, in order for L2VPN to be able to work on this.

------Dinesh wrote------
 > "Nov 2009    Submit Auto-Discovery solution for VPMS to IESG"
 > DM>> VPMS?? Possibly a typo :-)

No, it's not a typo.  See above for a more detailed explanation of a new 
work item (recently) proposed by Frederic, Phillipe & Rahul.

------Florin wrote------

 > Mar 2009    Submit I-D on Virtual Private Multicast Service
 > (VPMS)requirements to IESG
 > [..]
 > Nov 2009    Submit Auto-Discovery solution for VPMS to IESG
 >
 > FB> (this comment applies to the 2 previous items) Not sure I understand
 > what are we trying to achieve here? We stated in item 5 of the charter
 > that L2 VPN WG is going to deal with "5. Mechanisms to permit
 > optimization of multicast data traffic within a VPLS or VPWS VPN over an
 > IP/MPLS PSN." Is VPMS a way to optimize VPLS/VPWS or is it similar with
 > P2MP LSPs? Or is it P2MP PWs? I see L2VPN WG working on this just in
 > case we are dealing with a VPN like collection of PWs. Otherwise we
 > should probably address this in PWE3/MPLS to start with.
 > FB>

Thanks for pointing this out.  To be clear, the L2VPN WG is dependent on 
the /successful/ chartering of P2MP PW's within the PWE3 WG -- which 
hasn't happened, yet.

Assuming the PWE3 WG does charter P2MP PW's, the way the VPMS work would 
be split between the PWE3 WG and the L2VPN WG is as follows:
1)  Requirements for a unidirectional P2MP PW will be in PWE3;
2)  P2MP PW encapsulation solution(s) will be in PWE3;
3)  Requirements for a VPMS "service", (Virtual Private P2MP 
unidirectional service), will be put forth in the the L2VPN WG;
4)  BGP Auto-Discovery procedures for VPMS will also be put in L2VPN.

In terms of existing drafts that would mean:
- draft-raggarwa-l2vpn-p2mp-pw-00: would get split into two drafts.  The 
first draft would define a P2MP PW (#2) and be within the scope of PWE3. 
  The second draft would define BGP Auto-Discovery procedures for VPMS 
(#4) and be within the L2VPN WG.
- draft-jounay-pwe3-p2mp-pw-requirements-01 would be in PWE3 and cover #1.
- A new, yet unwritten draft would have to be put forth to cover #3, 
(or, perhaps, combined with #4).

-----Ali wrote-----
 > iv) "5. Mechanisms to permit optimization of multicast data traffic
 > within a VPLS or VPWS VPN over an IP/MPLS PSN."
 >
 > AS> mcast optimization should only be for VPLS based on VPWS service
 > definition.

So, are you saying you share the same concern as Florin that we need to 
'wait to see' if the PWE3 WG will add P2MP PW's to their charter?

I've pinged Danny & Stewart to see if they can send out the new PWE3 
charter soon, in order that we're not 'waiting to see' if PWE3 WG will 
or will not take on P2MP PW's.

Thanks,

-shane

---

From: Rahul Aggarwal <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:30:27 -0700 (PDT)

Hi Shane,

> chartering P2MP PW's, in order for L2VPN to be able to work on this.

Agreed. Clarifying the definition of VPMS in the charter will help.

> (or, perhaps, combined with #4).

That seems consistant with how VPWS related mechanisms are split between
PWE3 and L2VPN WG today.

rahul

---

From: "BALUS Florin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 16:56:34 -0500

[..] - cutting the previous text to make it for an easier read

> 4)  BGP Auto-Discovery procedures for VPMS will also be put in L2VPN.
I agree that P2MP PW has to be discussed and included in the PWE3
charter first. Then the requirements and the solution components (e.g.
encapsulation(s), signaling) need to be addressed in PWE3 WG. 

Isn't it too early though to talk about a VPMS charter item for L2VPN
WG? It might be better to wait for PWE3 WG to make a decision on this
and then decide how much and what kind of work we need to do in L2VPN
WG?

---

From: Shane Amante <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 22:19:34 -0600

Hi Florin,

Sorry for the delayed reply.  Please see below.

> and then decide how much and what kind of work we need to do in L2VPN

I agree it was a little early to discuss this, but I was counting on  
the new PWE3 WG charter to have been sent out by now so P2MP PW's  
would be discussed over there at the same time.  Ultimately, if there  
is no decision in PWE3 on P2MP PW's by the time we close down  
discussing the new L2VPN charter, (in 3 more weeks on 4/25/2008), then  
I see no choice but to pull VPMS from the L2VPN charter.

-shane

---

From: "BALUS Florin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 00:21:05 -0500

Thanks Shane, sounds like a good plan.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shane Amante [mailto:[email-masked]] 
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 9:20 PM
> To: BALUS Florin
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: L2VPN (Re-)charter: VPMS (Virtual Private P2MP 
> unidirectional Service)
> 
> Hi Florin,
> 
> >> Thanks for pointing this out.  To be clear, the L2VPN WG 
> is dependent 
> >> on the /successful/ chartering of P2MP PW's within the PWE3 WG -- 
> >> which hasn't happened, yet.
> >>
> >> Assuming the PWE3 WG does charter P2MP PW's, the way the VPMS work 
> >> would be split between the PWE3 WG and the L2VPN WG is as follows:
> I agree it was a little early to discuss this, but I was 
> counting on the new PWE3 WG charter to have been sent out by 
> now so P2MP PW's would be discussed over there at the same 
> time.  Ultimately, if there is no decision in PWE3 on P2MP 
> PW's by the time we close down discussing the new L2VPN 
> charter, (in 3 more weeks on 4/25/2008), then I see no choice 
> but to pull VPMS from the L2VPN charter.
> 
> -shane
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> - draft-raggarwa-l2vpn-p2mp-pw-00: would get split into 
> two drafts.  
> >> The first draft would define a P2MP PW (#2) and be within 
> the scope 
> >> of PWE3.
> >> So, are you saying you share the same concern as Florin 
> that we need 
> >> to 'wait to see' if the PWE3 WG will add P2MP PW's to 
> their charter?
> >>