Subject: [lemonade] I-D Action:draft-ietf-lemonade-profile-bis-08.txt

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 03:45:02 -0800 (PST)

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Enhancements to Internet email to Support Diverse Service Environments Working Group of the IETF.

	Title           : The Lemonade Profile
	Author(s)       : D. Cridland, et al.
	Filename        : draft-ietf-lemonade-profile-bis-08.txt
	Pages           : 36
	Date            : 2008-02-21

This document describes a profile (a set of required extensions,
restrictions and usage modes) of the IMAP and mail submission
protocols.  This profile allows clients (especially those that are
constrained in memory, bandwidth, processing power, or other areas)
to efficiently use IMAP and Submission to access and submit mail.
This includes the ability to forward received mail without needing to
download and upload the mail, to optimize submission and to
efficiently resynchronize in case of loss of connectivity with the
server.

The Lemonade profile relies upon several extensions to IMAP and Mail
Submission protocols.

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---

From: Dan Karp <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:14:39 -0800 (PST)

When did SORT, ESORT, and CONTEXT=SORT get included in profile-bis?
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---

From: Alexey Melnikov <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:24:28 +0000

>When did SORT, ESORT, and CONTEXT=SORT get included in profile-bis?
During the Lemonade interim last spring. Philip van Hoof said that 
CONTEXT=SEARCH is not that useful without sorting.

---

From: Dan Karp <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:38:44 -0800 (PST)

> CONTEXT=SEARCH is not that useful without sorting.

First, that's poppycock.  If a client can operate *without* CONTEXT=SEARCH, adding CONTEXT=SEARCH does not add any need for sorting whatsoever.

Second, the more MUSTs you add, the less chance a server dev has of meeting them all.  If you want Lemonade to be widely implemented, you *need* to pare it down to things that are actually necessary.  And adding a major dependency like SORT just to make a minor feature like CONTEXT=SEARCH work better is ludicrous.
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---

From: Alexey Melnikov <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:43:10 +0000

>First, that's poppycock.  If a client can operate *without* CONTEXT=SEARCH, adding CONTEXT=SEARCH does not add any need for sorting whatsoever.
My point was that if a client uses CONTEXT=SEARCH, that it would likely 
need CONTEXT=SORT.
This was something said by a client developer.

Now, if you want to argue against removal of CONTEXT=SEARCH, 
CONTEXT=SORT and ESORT, feel free to do so.

---

From: Arnt Gulbrandsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:10:36 +0100

Dan Karp writes:
> First, that's poppycock. If a client can operate *without* 
> CONTEXT=SEARCH, adding CONTEXT=SEARCH does not add any need for 
> sorting whatsoever.
>
> Second, the more MUSTs you add, the less chance a server dev has of 
> meeting them all. If you want Lemonade to be widely implemented, you 
> *need* to pare it down to things that are actually necessary. And 
> adding a major dependency like SORT just to make a minor feature like 
> CONTEXT=SEARCH work better is ludicrous.

Huh. For me SORT was easy, I did it in less than one day, CONTEXT=* will 
be harder.

I agree with your main point. Things are being added too easily.

Arnt

---

From: Alexey Melnikov <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:21:51 +0000

> I agree with your main point. Things are being added too easily.

Folks, can you please hold off your arguments about what should be 
include or excluded from Profile Bis until the interim conference call 
later today.
Note that even if you can't participate in the conference call today, 
there would be another opportunity at the joint meeting with OMA on 
March 14th, and yet another opportunity when the Lemonade Profile Bis 
document will go to WGLC.

I would like to ask people to concentrate on closing CONVERT and NOTIFY 
(in that order). If you think I have infinite amount of energy and free 
time to argue with everybody, you are seriously mistaken.