Subject: [lp-wan] Minutes, IETF 96 LPWAN WG-forming BoF Meeting

From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 16:33:36 +0000

Agenda and Meeting information

Meeting        :   IETF96 Monday, July 18, 2016 (CEST)

Time           :   15:40-17:40 Monday Afternoon session I (120min)

Location       :   Charlottenburg II/III, Intercontinental Berlin

Chairs         :   Pascal Thubert <[email-masked]>

                   Alexander Pelov <[email-masked]>

Responsible AD :   Suresh Krishnan

URLs           :   http://tools.ietf.org/wg/lpwan/

                   https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/lpwan/

                   https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lpwan

                   http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-96-lpwan

*        Intro and Status [5min] (Chairs)

     *   Note-Well, Blue Sheets, Scribes, Agenda Bashing
     *   General introduction, 6LPWA architecture (Alexander Pelov, P. Thubert)

*        Selected technologies: presentation and characterization [40mn]

     *   Technology slot 1: 3GPP LPWA (NB-IoT / EC-GSM-IoT / Cat-M1) [10mn] (Antti Ratilainen)
     *   Technology slot 2: IEEE LPWA (Wi-SUN, IEEE 802.15.4g) [10mn] (Bob Heile)
     *   Technology slot 3: LoRa [10mn] (Alper Yegin)
     *   Technology slot 4: SIGFOX [10mn] (Juan Carlos Zuniga)

*        Applicability and gap analysis of Internet protocols [20mn]

     *   LPWA Gap analysis - Ana Minaburo (draft-minaburo-lp-wan-gap-analysis)
     *   Analysis of IPv6 over LPWA: design space and challenges - Carles Gomez (draft-gomez-lpwan-ipv6-analysis)

*        Charter and work Items Discussions, led by chairs (< 1H)

     *   Interaction model with LPWA technologies (just cross participations? ISGs?)
     *   Review proposed work items, one by one

Resources

  *   agenda: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/96/agenda/lpwan
  *   Links to audio streams, meetecho and jabber: https://tools.ietf.org/agenda/96/#96-mon-1540-lpwan
  *   presented slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/96/session/lpwan/

Volunteers

  *   Scribes
     *   Dominique Barthel
     *   Diego Dujovne
  *   Jabber
     *   Renzo Navas

Minutes

*        [15:46] Intro and Status [5min] (Chairs)

     *   Note-Well, Blue Sheets, Scribes, Agenda Bashing
     *   General introduction, LPWA architecture (Alexander Pelov, P. Thubert)
     *   two sides of "low-power". RF transmission power as well as power drawn from battery (equating to lifetime on a primary battery).
     *   radio link. Asymetric quality. Duty-cycling.
     *   an array of constraints, not all reaching the extreme values in a given situation. Diverse cases
     *   Typical architecture of this type of networks. As they exist today.
     *   Challenges: Management of security. Maintain devices. Mobility (vehicles) Use addresses over overlays/security
     *   Devices only wake up when they have something to transmit: LPWA devices. 6tisch for density and battery, with schedule.

*        Selected technologies: presentation and characterization [40mn]

     *   Technology slot 1: 3GPP LPWA (NB-IoT / EC-GSM-IoT / Cat-M1) [10mn] (Antti Ratilainen) (Suresh standing in for him)
     *   developped at 3GPP. 3GPP distinguishes Massive MTC and Critical MTC (Machine TYpe Communication).
     *   this is for the low end of MMTC.
     *   use licensed band from already deployed networks instead of unlicensed bands such as sigfox
     *   three operation modes: use one gsm band, use the guard band (whitespace) in band using LTE band
     *   receeiver sensibility -141dBm, provides long range. QPSK, 180 kHz badwidth.
     *   Packet data convergence protocol (PDCP) right below IP. 1600 bytes. Use all the already existing mechanisms (NAS: Non acces stratum and AS: Access Stratum)
     *   Mutual authentication. Shared secrets on the user.
     *   Network architecture is based on ePC (evolved Packet Core).
     *
     *   Questions: Sri: ? what are your expectations from this BOF? Suresh: presenting for Antti. Consider NB-IoT as one of the LPWAN techs and work on common solutions. As an AD, ...
     *   Specifications for NB-IoT? Suresh :3GPP members get the documents. Maybe through a liaison.
     *   Lionel Morand: released specs are available on the 3GPP web site.
     *   Don Sturek: 3GPP release 14.

o   Suresh: there's a draft, go and read it and ask Antti if you have questions.

o   [16:07] Technology slot 2: IEEE LPWA (Wi-SUN, IEEE 802.15.4g) [10mn] (Bob Heile)

     *   15.4 is much wider range of tehcnologies than LPWAN
     *   IETF and IEEE802 have been collaborating for years.
     *   issues in 15.4a, k and g that are similar to other technologies described in this BOF.
     *   Wi-SUN Alliance: profiles out of IEEE stnadards and few others. Does not develop standards.
     *   Support and testing verification programs
     *   Field Area Network profile (FAN). A profile for TEPCO (Japan) called Route B. Home Area Networking profile.
     *   why Wi-SUN here today? serves the LPWAN space. Here for awareness, contributing experiencem ensure consistency, ...
     *   Wi-SUN already uses IP, can interconnect to WiFi.
     *   SRI: Specifical technical requirements? same as other presentation in this session.
     *   Subir Das: 802.15.4 belongs to 6lo 15.12 to LPWA

o   Don Sturek:

o   [16:16] Technology slot 3: LoRa [10mn] (Alper Yegin)

     *
     *   Long Range, Sub-GHz, Unlicensed. 300bps-50Kbps. Beyond 10Km. Payload: 11bytes-242 bytes. 10 yrs operation, supports unicast/multicast. Adaptive data rate to use network at maximum capacity. Supports mobility.
     *   Data rate higher, closer to the source.
     *   Dynamic negotiation with the network to adapt the data rate and the power.
     *   3 classes of operation: class A devices only receive just after they transit. Class B devices have scheduled reception. Class C is mains powered, has receiver on most of the time
     *   Radio base-stations called Radio Gateways in LoRa parlance. MAC layer is called LoRaWAN, 1.0 version freely available from Alliance website
     *   MAC address is 32bit, device id is 64bits.
     *   Release 1.1 will have: backend interface (network,authentication, application servers), App and Session key separation, roaming.
     *   various applications running on top of MAC layer. We dont have a way to use? coap and ipv6
     *   AES-CMAC data origin authentication, integrity protection, replay protection
     *   can roll keys through re-join
     *   Alliance: standardization and specification and foster ecosystem. 16 nationwide deployments 56 on-going trials
     *   Don Sturek: Envision end device to Network server communication be in scope for IETF?
     *   Alper: No. LoRaWAN is MAC layer, I dont think IETF should work on MAC layer. Would you help the IEEE to distill the requirements. We have a plan and write a draft.
     *   Samita: constrained devices at 6lo, .. Alper: we feel that the LoRa constraints go beyond those that were considered at 6lo so far.

o   Pascal: some issues raised at LPWAN could be transfered to 6lo to profile technical solutions to them, much as has happened between 6TiSCH and 6lo.

o   [16:30] Technology slot 4: SIGFOX [10mn] (Juan Carlos Zuniga)

     *   SIGFOX is an IoT service provider, not just technology provider.
     *   will talk about technology here.
     *   single core network even for radio gateways in multiple countries, no roaming.
     *   asynchronous transmission, similar to Class A in LoRa.
     *   "un-balanced" link, radio gateway has duty-cycle restriction and deals with many devices, so very restricted downlink communication compared to uplink.
     *   optimized for uplink communications
     *   no fragmentation, no encryption
     *   applications...
     *   expected battery lietime 10-15 years.
     *   Sri: Open protocols between device and gateways? Device-Function interaction
        *   On the draft is inclued only the items related to what is needed in IETF. Could add more on request.
        *   architecture doc at ETSI.
     *   Don Sturek: mobility?
        *   Nomadic. Devices to move on any country.
     *   xxx: authentication? What kind of credentials. JCZ: keys are pre-provisionned, no EAP.
     *   Gabriel Montenegro: unlicensed spectrum. What about co-existence? JCZ: regulatory requirement on power and duty-cycle.
        *   Different requirements as they are for wifi. Regulatory rules. Comply with them.
        *   Wifi against LTE-LAA
     *   Benoit Ponsard (Sigfox): EN300-200 in EU and FCC Part 15 in US.
     *   Patrick Wettervald: Service provider? No mobility. Service provider ID?
     *   Cloud provider for added value.
     *   PW:Through SigFox company to transmit? Yes, only one network worldwide.
     *   Yes.

*        [16:45] Applicability and gap analysis of Internet protocols [20mn]

     *   LPWA Gap analysis - Ana Minaburo (draft-minaburo-lp-wan-gap-analysis)
     *   objective to discuss how the current WG at IETF could tackle some of the problems, and what should be done in an LPWAN group.
     *   goes through LPWAN cahracteristics again. Key caharacteristic is "bytes per day", not per second.
     *   architecture overview, similar for different technologies but for the names given to the various functions. Will need to agree on terminology.
     *   will re-use current protocols. Some IPv6 issue: header overhead, variable MTU yields variable number of trames for same IP packet.
     *   current WGs related to this space: 6lo, ROHC, 6TiSCH, Core, ...
        *   6lowpan different from LPWA because of the distributed nature of these networks and unidirectional links
        *   RoHC too complex in the original version to address this problem
        *   Adapt synchronization from 6TiSCH to LPWAN
        *   Adapt the COAP solution for the Duty cycle length.
        *   We have to find out a place where to put all these solutions together to find what is missing?
     *   Gabriel: did you say 6LoWPAN header 6 bytes? Ana: yes IPv6 and UDP.
     *   Luca Martini: on slide ??, "reachability", what do you mean?
        *   to be able to deploy the device wherever we like.
        *   []?
        *   use overlays to isolate the devices but keep communication with their cluod?
     *   Vince Park (?) (Ben Sparks): clarifying question. You said "no ACK", you mean "in some technologies"? Ana: indeed.
        *   Pascal: This is specific for this technology unlike 802.15.4 that already has 6lowpan.
     *   Lionel Morand: you mentioned strong security of IP but did not mention IETF working groups contributing on security to this work.
        *   Ana: Use what was already done and adapt it. Doesn't seem like new work is needed on security, but we'll see. Pascal: ... ANIMA...
     *   Geoff Mulligan: this is a list of gaps, the ga analysis is not done. Ana: indeed.
     *   Suresh: my advice is find what is needed, not jump to solutions.

o   Alex: Ana's draft is only 13 pages, read and comment.

o   [17:02] Analysis of IPv6 over LPWA: design space and challenges - Carles Gomez (draft-gomez-lpwan-ipv6-analysis)

        *   traditionaly 6LoWPAN used to adapt IPv6 to constrained networks, now even more constrained networks, sometime by orders of magnitude.
        *   LPWAN is a real challenge for 6LoWPAN.
        *   this draft has challenges and guidelines
        *   challenges: .. device ID privacy, fragmentation, neighbor discovery, header compression
        *   see slides for more detail on these challenges ;-)
        *   Eric Vyncke (Cisco) router advertisement... really needed?
        *   Yes.
        *   Zach Shelby: careful. Not try to apply all IP technologies on any radio technology? If it doesn't fit, why force it... Star networks mostly, don't need a lot of stuff. Most of what you're trying to do has already been done at 6lo, size your WG ambition.
        *   Gabriel Montenegro: what is it that you need. 6LoWPAN was for 15.4, 15.4 has shared state. These networks seem to have even more shared state, make use of it.
        *   Gabriel: privacy addressing. Should say "All devices should be mindful of privacy, see document at 6lo on this topic".
        *   Suresh: work that should be done at 6lo will be done at 6lo. Lower layer components may no happen here. This WG would be about "solution".
        *   Ben Sparks: Does this make sense? Gap Analysis: if the link layer is so constrained to support IP traffic, a higher layer should do the job.
        *   Pascal: need for an architecture. Which component/functionality goes where. Is new model/topology needed?
        *   Suresh: we need to move on.
        *   Matias Kovatsch: not much work what can we expect from these networks. Common expectation from the Alliances for the work that could be done here.
        *   Suresh: Charter discussion covers this.

*        [17:20] Charter and work Items Discussions, led by chairs (< 1H)

     *   Interaction model with LPWA technologies (just cross participations? ISGs?)
     *   Review proposed work items, one by one
     *   Pascal: list of potential work items, does any pertain to IETF? please humm
     *   Suresh: First, is it clear to the people on the room which is the problem to be solved are?
     *   list is: compression, fragmentationm security, mobility, scheduling, management, signaling, RESTful enablement, architecture to tie everything together
     *   Suresh: Common understanding of the set of problems?

o   Pascal: Those who understand, please humm? significant humm

        *   Pascal: Those who do not understand please humm? silent.

o   Renzo: Jabber: 3 hums for yes / 0 for no

o   Margaret (Wasserman) (Cullen): full list of mixed items, response could differ per item.

     *   Do these kind of features match those of the IETF?
     *   Juan Carlos: The list of issues does not necessarily match to the charter. Maybe other groups or outside the IETF.
     *   Pascal: have a place to put things together, and request/push work from/to other WGs, much like we did in 6TiSCH.
     *   who is on the mailing list: majority of the audience in the room
     *   Charter points 1 displayed on screen.
     *   Pascal: This is the summary of the whole presentation.
     *   Pat Kinney (Jabber): IEEE 802.15.12 is considering working on device and radio resource management for 802.15.4. Response from Suresh: Yes simmilar point to Juan Carlos
     *   Charter points 2 on screen: gap analysis. Alper: per technology? Pascal: will be a WG doc, WG will decide, but my intention is no finger-pointing. Suresh: small change in proposed charter to say what is technology-specific and what is not.
     *   Charter points 3 put on screen. Standard Track document on compression.
     *   Zach: this is "let's invent a new compression mechanism". Pascal: yes. Zach: why? Pascal: best of both 6LoWPAN and ROHC. Compress the way RoHC does.
     *   Zach: 6lowpan already elides ipv6 and udp in most cases. You want to go further takig advantage of the larger shared context, as Gabriel said.
     *   Geoff Mulligan: what does "over LPWA" mean?
     *   Pascal: not enforcing to see IP on the LPWA link. Enabled but not enforced. The real stack is on the gateway.
     *   Charter points 4 put on screen. Fragmentatino
     *   Margaret: is it well-defined which LPWA technologies are being considered? Pascal: called out and 4 technology providers came forward
     *   Margaret: IP-over-foo. Do one after the other and re-use previous one to do the next. Haven't seen IP-over-foo in this meeting
     *   Suresh: IPv6-over-foo belongs in 6lo. This is about something more, we have a more restricted environment: few packets, very small packets Pascal: putting IETF "components" together to deliver a package to users.
     *   Suresh: 3GPP is already doing IP over some of their technologies. They come to us for the higher layers,
     *   Pascal: overlays, AAA, provide IETF components that they need.
     *   Samita: charter based on some drafts discussed at this mmeeting. But given 4 different technologies, would like to see new requirements not already addressed at IETF today. Pascal: this is point 2. Point 3 already delivers something so that users don't wait for us to figure the requirements.
     *   Samita: should focus on the requirements.
     *   Sri:
     *   Pascal: we'll discuss it on the mailing list. No immediate answer anyway
     *   Suresh: feeing for understanding of the proposed charter. How many people understand. Those who have questions, please humm. None
     *   Suresh: enough work for the IETF to do, humm: significant humm. (jabber, hum yes 1 . no: 0)
     *   Suresh: those who ..., please humm. One heard (Erik)
     *   Erik Nordmark: work to be done, but should this mean form a new WG?
     *   Margaret: Are there more items?
     *   Suresh: who is interested in contributing to the lpwan? big humm
     *   Suresh: interested in reviewing? significant humm (jabber: 3 hums)
     *   interested in using is something comes out. Fairly significant humm (jabber: 2 humms)
     *   Lionel: clarify what you would like to do. Compression seems clear. Security lessa clear.
     *   Suresh: got the answers that wanted out of this meeting.