Subject: [Manycouches] Fwd: Next steps: chat service trials

From: Robert Sparks <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 13:17:52 -0600

Hopefully everyone on both the chairs and manycouches list follows 
ietf-announce, but in case not:

(Discussion should take place on [email-masked])

RjS

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	Next steps: chat service trials
Date: 	Fri, 11 Dec 2020 13:00:58 -0600
From: 	Robert Sparks <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: 	tools-discuss <[email-masked]>
To: 	[email-masked]

We have been running trial zulip, matrix, and xmpp services since October.
See
<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf-announce/?q=%22trial%20chat%22>

As noted in those announcements, the issue that we are trying to address 
is the difficulty people have been reporting obtaining jabber services 
and clients. We are hopeful that these trials will help the community 
develop a better sense of whether to focus on improving the experiences 
with xmpp or to pursue other chat solutions. We are also open to the 
possibility that these other solutions may be worth operating in 
addition to improving the experiences from xmpp.

However, usage and feedback so far has not been sufficient to inform 
what services we should run in the future.

We had around 50 local jabber accounts created on xmpp-trial1.ietf.org, 
and around 40 accounts were created on each of the matrix and zulip 
services.
Few rooms have been created on the matrix service other than those 
bridging to xmpp.
Few streams were created on the zulip service other than those bridging 
to xmpp and those ingesting a few mailing lists.

We are not aware of anyone trying to use the zulip or matrix servers for 
ietf work outside the main meeting.

If you've used the services, please take a few minutes to provide 
feedback at [email-masked].

Is providing local jabber accounts and a web interface to jabber sufficient?
Are there features that matrix or zulip provide that are truly helpful 
for progressing IETF work? If so, please describe how they are helping.

To collect more feedback, we are planning to extend the trials through 
IETF 110. Please take advantage of these services between now and then 
(at interim meetings for example) and let us know what you find to be 
effective.

If you are interested in using these services more directly for your 
group's day-to-day communication, and are willing to test one or both of 
these services on a primary basis for a while, please coordinate with 
the appropriate leadership and let the tools team know so we can help 
accommodate.  Please consider using these services for ad-hoc, 
design-team meetings, and even interims (again, coordinating with the 
appropriate leadership).

If you have had issues using Jabber in the past, please take some time 
now to work with these new services and describe whether they improve 
your experience.

We need more feedback about these services to develop a sense of what 
will best meet the community's needs going forward. Please engage in 
exploring and discussing them at [email-masked].

While exploring, feel free to use the trial1-feedback room on Matrix and 
the trial1-feedback stream on Zulip.

Thanks again to the volunteers that have been helping configure these 
services and keep them going.

Robert Sparks, Tools Team Chair

_______________________________________________
IETF-Announce mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2020 16:30:46 +0100

> (Discussion should take place on [email-masked])

I think one can stay home only if s/he had the right tools to meet online.

> We are not aware of anyone trying to use the zulip or matrix servers 
> for ietf work outside the main meeting.

I can try them.  But what is the zulip or matrix URL that I can click on?

> feedback at [email-masked].

This is a good point.  I wonder whether there can be an automated
forwarding between lists that have a certain common interest?  E.g. when
I post here with 'tools' in the Subject line it also gets there, and
vice-versa with 'couches'.

Alex

> 
> RjS
> 
> 
> 
> -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: 	Next steps: chat 
> service trials Date: 	Fri, 11 Dec 2020 13:00:58 -0600 From: 	Robert 
> Sparks <[email-masked]> Reply-To: 	tools-discuss 
> <[email-masked]> To: 	[email-masked]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have been running trial zulip, matrix, and xmpp services since 
> October. See 
As noted in those announcements, the issue that we are trying to
> address is the difficulty people have been reporting obtaining
> jabber services and clients. We are hopeful that these trials will
> help the community develop a better sense of whether to focus on
> improving the experiences with xmpp or to pursue other chat
> solutions. We are also open to the possibility that these other
> solutions may be worth operating in addition to improving the
> experiences from xmpp.
> 
> We had around 50 local jabber accounts created on 
> xmpp-trial1.ietf.org, and around 40 accounts were created on each of 
> the matrix and zulip services. Few rooms have been created on the 
> matrix service other than those bridging to xmpp. Few streams were 
> created on the zulip service other than those bridging to xmpp and 
> those ingesting a few mailing lists.
> 
> We are not aware of anyone trying to use the zulip or matrix servers 
> for ietf work outside the main meeting.
> 
> Is providing local jabber accounts and a web interface to jabber 
> sufficient? Are there features that matrix or zulip provide that are 
> truly helpful for progressing IETF work? If so, please describe how 
> they are helping.
> 
> To collect more feedback, we are planning to extend the trials 
> through IETF 110. Please take advantage of these services between
> now and then (at interim meetings for example) and let us know what
> you find to be effective.
> 
> group's day-to-day communication, and are willing to test one or both
> of these services on a primary basis for a while, please coordinate
> with the appropriate leadership and let the tools team know so we can
> help accommodate.  Please consider using these services for ad-hoc,
> If you have had issues using Jabber in the past, please take some 
> time now to work with these new services and describe whether they 
> improve your experience.
> 
> We need more feedback about these services to develop a sense of
> what will best meet the community's needs going forward. Please
> engage in exploring and discussing them at [email-masked].
> 
> While exploring, feel free to use the trial1-feedback room on Matrix 
> and the trial1-feedback stream on Zulip.
> 
> Thanks again to the volunteers that have been helping configure
> these services and keep them going.
> 
> _______________________________________________ IETF-Announce
> mailing list [email-masked] 
> _______________________________________________ Manycouches mailing 
> list [email-masked] 
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manycouches
>

---

From: Robert Sparks <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 13:38:18 -0600

Hi Alex -

>> (Discussion should take place on [email-masked])
Please honor the Reply-To header on these messages (also set on this 
one) and keep this conversation on [email-masked]
> I can try them.  But what is the zulip or matrix URL that I can click on?

For convenience:

https://zulip-trial1.ietf.org, https://matrix-trial1.ietf.org and 
https://xmpp-trial1.ietf.org

Those are detailed more thoroughly in the announcements you can re-read at

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf-announce/?q="trial chat"

> vice-versa with 'couches'.
The zulip instance ingests a few mailing lists, but that bridge is not 
bi-directional. There are different modes of conversation with email and 
chat - the email reflection of chat would look similar to an email 
reflection of a jabber room - not a very pleasant way to consume or 
participate in the chat.
>> service trials Date:     Fri, 11 Dec 2020 13:00:58 -0600 From:     
>> Robert Sparks <[email-masked]> Reply-To:     tools-discuss